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[[User:BibleBrown|BibleBrown]] 18:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)

[[User:BibleBrown|BibleBrown]] 18:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Uh, Adam rejected the apple when it was offered by the snake, but then eve was corrupted and adam, believeing eve still to be god's perfect creation along with him, ate the apple.

Uh, Adam rejected the apple when it was offered by the snake, but then eve was corrupted and adam, believing eve still to be god's perfect creation along with him, ate the apple.

==Yes==

==Yes==

==Huh?==

==Huh?==

I never understood the whole concept of sin and sacrifice. God creates rules so strict that no human can possibly obey them perfectly. Why? God could have made more reasonable rules. Then, for some reason, the tiniest violation of these rules forbids somsone from entering heaven, and condemns them to hell (Precise nature of hell may vary between denominations). Again, why? What happened to reasonable punishment? Oh, but God will make it all ok by offering to transfer everyone's punishment of eternal torment into another individual - God, dispite being omnipotent, is bound by his own law to punish ''someone'' for sin, but it doesn't really matter who. So God, the omnipotent who apparently ''wrote the rules'' regarding sin, still had to undergo this elaborate ritual of sacrificing Himself, to Himself, in order to save people from punishments He would otherwise have to administer for violating rules He wrote in such a way they are impossible to obey.

I never understood the whole concept of sin and sacrifice. God creates rules so strict that no human can possibly obey them perfectly. Why? God could have made more reasonable rules. Then, for some reason, the tiniest violation of these rules forbids somsone from entering heaven, and condemns them to hell (Precise nature of hell may vary between denominations). Again, why? What happened to reasonable punishment? Oh, but God will make it all ok by offering to transfer everyone's punishment of eternal torment into another individual - God, despite being omnipotent, is bound by his own law to punish ''someone'' for sin, but it doesn't really matter who. So God, the omnipotent who apparently ''wrote the rules'' regarding sin, still had to undergo this elaborate ritual of sacrificing Himself, to Himself, in order to save people from punishments He would otherwise have to administer for violating rules He wrote in such a way they are impossible to obey.

It just makes no sense. - suricou

It just makes no sense. - suricou

This might sound like Roman Catholic bashing but I do believe this is the actual teaching of the RCC:

This might sound like Roman Catholic bashing but I do believe this is the actual teaching of the RCC:

Christ is sacrificed anew at each Mass. The Liturgy is called "The Sacrifice of the Mass." There are those who disagree with this POV citing Hebrews, (mainly), to repudiate this specific teaching. I'll get you chapter and verse if we actually need it. --[[User:Rob Pommer| Cracker]]_{[[User_talk:Rob_Pommer|talk]]} 16:23, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Christ is sacrificed anew at each Mass. The Liturgy is called "The Sacrifice of the Mass." There are those who disagree with this POV citing Hebrews, (mainly), to repudiate this specific teaching. I'll get you chapter and verse if we actually need it. --[[User:Rob Pommer|Cracker]]_{[[User talk:Rob Pommer|talk]]} 16:23, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

:Looks like you were wrong as someone posted yes and they were not attacked.  Perhaps this conspiracy would have played out if you had not spoiled the trap.[[User:Rebiu|Rebiu]] 21:39, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

:Looks like you were wrong as someone posted yes and they were not attacked.  Perhaps this conspiracy would have played out if you had not spoiled the trap.[[User:Rebiu|Rebiu]] 21:39, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

On the contrary, Christ is not sacrificed anew at each Mass, he is sacrificed anew by each sinner when he or she sins.  Bearing false witness is a sin.  Christ's sacrifice is a single event in eternity, and it is presented to the Church Militant in time with each mass.  In other words, the Eucharist is how man in linear time taps into and unites with the Calvary event. [[User:Teresita|Teresita]] 09:40, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

On the contrary, Christ is not sacrificed anew at each Mass, he is sacrificed anew by each sinner when he or she sins.  Bearing false witness is a sin.  Christ's sacrifice is a single event in eternity, and it is presented to the Church Militant in time with each mass.  In other words, the Eucharist is how man in linear time taps into and unites with the Calvary event. [[User:Teresita|Teresita]] 09:40, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

:I see. But wouldn't that mean that Christ did not (in fact) die for the whole world but only those who share in the barbarity of His death? In other words, "Is the linear-time man, who doesn't partake in the mystery of the Mass, nullifying the Great Sacrifice of Jesus Christ." [[User:Rob Pommer| Cracker]]_{[[User_talk:Rob_Pommer|talk]]}

:I see. But wouldn't that mean that Christ did not (in fact) die for the whole world but only those who share in the barbarity of His death? In other words, "Is the linear-time man, who doesn't partake in the mystery of the Mass, nullifying the Great Sacrifice of Jesus Christ." [[User:Rob Pommer|Cracker]]_{[[User talk:Rob Pommer|talk]]}

I believe that the Roman Catholics do believe that Christ is sacrificed at each Mass anew, and that this is connected with the Teaching of the Transubstantiation, which holds that the Body and Blood of Jesus are literally present in the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist. OTOH, before we blanche at this idea, the scholastics then go ahead and say that the Body and Blood are only present in the Substance not the Accidents of the Bread. Which means they is no actual flesh and blood there, but that it is not a figure of speech either. This is the kind of medieval reasoning which frankly has died a well-deserved death in the modern world. Not even conservatives are much given to this kind of metaphysics, just as there is virtually no real interest in questions of whether Original Sin is passed thru the semen of the man or the egg of the woman. Terista's point is well-made, but she is talking figuratively (I think, I hasten to add). Many people would be loath to think, and sad to think, that Jesus re-suffers the whole of the Crucifixion EVERY time a Mass is held, or as noted here, every time a sinner sins. Let's differentiate between poetic metaphor, and ecclesiasticsl literalism.  

I believe that the Roman Catholics do believe that Christ is sacrificed at each Mass anew, and that this is connected with the Teaching of the Transubstantiation, which holds that the Body and Blood of Jesus are literally present in the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist. OTOH, before we blanche at this idea, the scholastics then go ahead and say that the Body and Blood are only present in the Substance not the Accidents of the Bread. Which means they is no actual flesh and blood there, but that it is not a figure of speech either. This is the kind of medieval reasoning which frankly has died a well-deserved death in the modern world. Not even conservatives are much given to this kind of metaphysics, just as there is virtually no real interest in questions of whether Original Sin is passed thru the semen of the man or the egg of the woman. Terista's point is well-made, but she is talking figuratively (I think, I hasten to add). Many people would be loath to think, and sad to think, that Jesus re-suffers the whole of the Crucifixion EVERY time a Mass is held, or as noted here, every time a sinner sins. Let's differentiate between poetic metaphor, and ecclesiasticsl literalism.  

[[User:mylesP|MylesP]] April 7, 2007 AD

[[User:mylesP|MylesP]] April 7, 2007 AD

My knowledge of the christian god concept is pretty limited but it appears to me to be a classic shellgame - Jesus is God isn't he? so what's being sacrificed? nothing as far as I can see. --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 10:34, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

My knowledge of the Christian God concept is pretty limited but it appears to me to be a classic shellgame - Jesus is God isn't he? so what's being sacrificed? nothing as far as I can see. --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 10:34, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

[[Category:Conservapedia Debates]]

[[Category:Conservapedia Debates]]