Changes

::::::If this weren't a private talk page, I'd revert your spam. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 17:39, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

::::::If this weren't a private talk page, I'd revert your spam. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 17:39, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

::::::Look, you've repeatedly stated, as Dataclarifier has, that "the Church" gives salvation. I prefer to think of that statement as ludicrous rather than blasphemous. Don't push me. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 17:48, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

::::::Look, you've repeatedly stated, as Dataclarifier has, that "the Church" gives salvation. I prefer to think of that statement as ludicrous rather than blasphemous. Don't push me. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 17:48, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

:::::::<br>Additional comments: Because I don't have administrator privileges, the only time Conservapedia makes available to edit is from about 10 am through to just before 2 am. So when I had something to say immediately outside those time limits, I got permission from Dataclarifier to use his ID. But when I did, I stated that's what I did.<br> He personally doesn't think there's any point in him posting to Conservapedia any more. Not only because RobSmith insists on futile "interminable debate" and stubbornly ignores or rejects what scripture says about the infallible divine authority of the Church being faithful to scripture and tradition by the ministry of the [[magisterium]] as defending and explaining the message of the full Gospel of Christ Jesus the Lord, but primarily because his vision has partially failed and the possible complications of eye surgery to remove the "sludge" of shifting "floaters" blocking his vision might possibly have caused the complication of permanent blindness with no sight. He elected to put up with the inconvenience of progressively losing his "reading vision" and not take the risk of surgery. The Wolfe Eye Clinic specialists said that with aging (he's almost 74) the vitreous humor that is the watery firm bulk of the eyeball begins to break down and produce the floaters, "like firm gelatin that breaks up into smaller movable pieces on the dish when a finger is pressed into it." There were two options: surgery or no surgery. Some have it worse than others. He decided to not take the surgery. The full assessment exam was 2 and a half hours. We drove him home. <br> As for me, I'm glad I found the scriptures about the Church and the necessity of obedience to the elders of the church "which have the rule over you", which I posted above on this page, and then read the Church Fathers from the 1st through the 8th centuries. Their consistent understanding of the Bible is clearly Catholic, not Protestant, and definitely not ''sola scriptura'', as NishantXavier pointed out in his excellent comments on Acts 15 (the [[Council of Jerusalem]]. I finally read the whole Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's the most Bible-based Church on earth! The Catholic Church says that God made the Church the source of salvation, his own mystical body, which is consistent with the doctrine of Christ that he taught the apostles and that they taught and preached to the people and that was later written down by the Evangelists in the Gospels and Paul's letters and James and Peter and the Revelation to John in the New Testament and handed down from the apostles by faithful men guarded by the Holy Spirit within them, and that the whole body of the members of the Church together with their leaders united with Jesus as the Head save people by the authority of Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Great Commission, from then to now. When they save someone (in the examples of the scriptures listed above), it's really Jesus in them as members of his Body united to him and moved by him in charity in the Church by the Holy Spirit, '''and''' the sacraments ministered by the members of his Body who save, because it is Jesus acting in the sacraments with the personal action of the washing of his blood of his cross in them that saves in the sacraments by the power of the Holy Spirit. When these people, ''in the scriptures about who saves who'', people who save others, and Jesus is not mentioned, Catholic doctrine teaches that it is Jesus through their good works of effecting salvation and offering sacrifices of worship and reparation for sins in union with him for the salvation of the world. He does the work of salvation by them. It all makes sense. That's why I became Catholic. <br> And that's why ''sola scriptura'' (using the Bible alone) can '''not''' explain how the Bible can on the one hand teach that individuals who are not Jesus can save souls, themselves and others, when on the other hand salvation is by Christ alone "apart from the Church". --[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 18:21, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

:::::::<br>Additional comments: Because I don't have administrator privileges, the only time Conservapedia makes available to edit is from about 10 am through to just before 2 am. So when I had something to say immediately outside those time limits, I got permission from Dataclarifier to use his ID. But when I did, I stated that's what I did.<br> He personally doesn't think there's any point in him posting to Conservapedia any more. Not only because RobSmith insists on futile "interminable debate" and stubbornly ignores or rejects what scripture says about the infallible divine authority of the Church being faithful to scripture and tradition by the ministry of the [[magisterium]] as defending and explaining the message of the full Gospel of Christ Jesus the Lord, but primarily because his vision has partially failed and the possible complications of eye surgery to remove the "sludge" of shifting "floaters" blocking his vision might possibly have caused the complication of permanent blindness with no sight. He elected to put up with the inconvenience of progressively losing his "reading vision" and not take the risk of surgery. The Wolfe Eye Clinic specialists said that with aging (he's almost 74) the vitreous humor that is the watery firm bulk of the eyeball begins to break down and produce the floaters, "like firm gelatin that breaks up into smaller movable pieces on the dish when a finger is pressed into it." There were two options: surgery or no surgery. Some have it worse than others. He decided to not take the surgery. The full assessment exam was 2 and a half hours. We drove him home. <br> As for me, I'm glad I found the scriptures about the Church and the necessity of obedience to the elders of the church "which have the rule over you", which I posted above on this page, and then read the Church Fathers from the 1st through the 8th centuries. Their consistent understanding of the Bible is clearly Catholic, not Protestant, and definitely not ''sola scriptura'', as NishantXavier pointed out in his excellent comments on Acts 15 (the [[Council of Jerusalem]]). I finally read the whole Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's the most Bible-based Church on earth! The Catholic Church says that God made the Church the source of salvation, his own mystical body, which is consistent with the doctrine of Christ that he taught the apostles and that they taught and preached to the people and that was later written down by the Evangelists in the Gospels and Paul's letters and James and Peter and the Revelation to John in the New Testament and handed down from the apostles by faithful men guarded by the Holy Spirit within them, and that the whole body of the members of the Church together with their leaders united with Jesus as the Head save people by the authority of Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Great Commission, from then to now. When they save someone (in the examples of the scriptures listed above), it's really Jesus in them as members of his Body united to him and moved by him in charity in the Church by the Holy Spirit, '''and''' the sacraments ministered by the members of his Body who save, because it is Jesus acting in the sacraments with the personal action of the washing of his blood of his cross in them that saves in the sacraments by the power of the Holy Spirit. When these people, ''in the scriptures about who saves who'', people who save others, and Jesus is not mentioned, Catholic doctrine teaches that it is Jesus through their good works of effecting salvation and offering sacrifices of worship and reparation for sins in union with him for the salvation of the world. He does the work of salvation by them. It all makes sense. That's why I became Catholic. <br> And that's why ''sola scriptura'' (using the Bible alone) can '''not''' explain how the Bible can on the one hand teach that individuals who are not Jesus can save souls, themselves and others, when on the other hand salvation is by Christ alone "apart from the Church". --[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 18:21, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

::::::::I'm sorry to hear that Dataclarifier's vision is partially failing. I'll continue sending more prayers every day for our Father in Heaven to ensure the best for you and Dataclarifier! —[[User:Liberaltears|Liberaltears]]^{'''''[[User:Liberaltears/mail|May Dataclarifier be well!]]'''''} 18:27, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

::::::::I'm sorry to hear that Dataclarifier's vision is partially failing. I'll continue sending more prayers every day for our Father in Heaven to ensure the best for you and Dataclarifier! —[[User:Liberaltears|Liberaltears]]^{'''''[[User:Liberaltears/mail|May Dataclarifier be well!]]'''''} 18:27, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

These types of debates always drag on and on, never ending. Aren't there other topics to debate about, such as whether pineapple belongs on pizza? —[[User:Liberaltears|Liberaltears]]^{'''''[[User:Liberaltears/mail|May Dataclarifier be well!]]'''''} 16:30, 12 July 2020 (EDT)

These types of debates always drag on and on, never ending. Aren't there other topics to debate about, such as whether pineapple belongs on pizza? —[[User:Liberaltears|Liberaltears]]^{'''''[[User:Liberaltears/mail|May Dataclarifier be well!]]'''''} 16:30, 12 July 2020 (EDT)