Block, Siteadmin, SkipCaptcha, Upload, Automoderated users, delete, edit, move, nsTeam2RO, nsTeam2RW, nsTeam2_talkRO, nsTeam2_talkRW, protect, rollback, Administrators, template
295,143
edits
Changes
→Matthew 18:15
:::It is absent. [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Monday, 07:25, 13 July 2020 (EDT)
:::It is absent. [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Monday, 07:25, 13 July 2020 (EDT)
::::'''if he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH'''—He that hath an ear, '''let him hear what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES'''. (''Revelation 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22''). '''And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?''' (''Luke 6:46''). '''He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day''' (''John 12:48''). '''Why do ye not understand my speech? ''even'' because ye cannot hear my word.''' (''John 8:43''). <br>IndependentSkeptic read me what you wrote (above). He would have to wait til 10am to respond. I don't. And I can still see enough through the "fog" in my eyes to respond (it isn't easy) and desperately '''beg you, for the sake of your soul, to obey Jesus' word, and do what he says, to listen to the Church and hear what the Spirit says to the Churches'''. <br>Little groups of two or three that get together to decide for themselves what the Bible means, if they are gathered together in the name of the Lord, Jesus is there in their midst, true, ''but if they refuse to hear his word to hear what the Spirit says to the Churches'', the word that he himself has spoken, the same shall judge them in the last day. The Spirit said through Saint Peter, "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (''2 Peter 1:20''). He also warns against those who "wrest" or twist the scriptures to their own destruction and draw others to fall from their stability in the Lord. <br> I fear for you. '''I beg you''' to do what Jesus says and '''listen to the Church'''. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls" (''Hebrews 13:17'')—"submit yourselves unto the Elder" (''in context of 1 Peter 5:1-9, the "shepherds" of the Church''), and look at the warning in Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to '''all the flock, <big>over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers</big>''', to feed the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood". Little groups of two or three gathered in the name of the Lord are not the Overseers of all the flock which is the Church of God. The Shepherds, the Elders, are, "who have the rule over you".<br> NishantXavier said it well in pointing out that when there was a debate over doctrine the issue was submitted to the elders of the church in Jerusalem and they made a decision binding on the church—they didn't say "Go and read the Bible and decide for yourselves." <br>I pray for you. '''I beg you''' to "'''listen to what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES'''" as Jesus said, because the Lord Jesus said, "'''He that rejecteth me, ''and receiveth not my words'', hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day'''". Lord have mercy. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 09:07, 13 July 2020 (EDT) (''composed just before the comment below, between 07:00 and 08:06 CDT'')<br>I want to quickly add and emphasize that the Church by the inspired mercy of the Holy Spirit in her acknowledges the truth of [[invincible ignorance]]. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 09:30, 13 July 2020 (EDT) (8:29 CDT)
::::'''if he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH'''—He that hath an ear, '''let him hear what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES'''. (''Revelation 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22''). '''And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?''' (''Luke 6:46''). '''He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day''' (''John 12:48''). '''Why do ye not understand my speech? ''even'' because ye cannot hear my word.''' (''John 8:43''). <br>IndependentSkeptic read me what you wrote (above). He would have to wait til 10am to respond. I don't. And I can still see enough through the "fog" in my eyes to respond (it isn't easy) and desperately '''beg you, for the sake of your soul, to obey Jesus' word, and do what he says, to listen to the Church and hear what the Spirit says to the Churches'''. <br>Little groups of two or three that get together to decide for themselves what the Bible means, if they are gathered together in the name of the Lord, Jesus is there in their midst, true, ''but if they refuse to hear his word to hear what the Spirit says to the Churches'', the word that he himself has spoken, the same shall judge them in the last day. The Spirit said through Saint Peter, "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (''2 Peter 1:20''). He also warns against those who "wrest" or twist the scriptures to their own destruction and draw others to fall from their stability in the Lord. <br> I fear for you. '''I beg you''' to do what Jesus says and '''listen to the Church'''. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls" (''Hebrews 13:17'')—"submit yourselves unto the Elder" (''in context of 1 Peter 5:1-9, the "shepherds" of the Church''), and look at the warning in Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to '''all the flock, <big>over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers</big>''', to feed the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood". Little groups of two or three gathered in the name of the Lord are not the Overseers of all the flock which is the Church of God. The Shepherds, the Elders, are, "who have the rule over you".<br> NishantXavier said it well in pointing out that when there was a debate over doctrine the issue was submitted to the elders of the church in Jerusalem and they made a decision binding on the church—they didn't say "Go and read the Bible and decide for yourselves." <br>I pray for you. '''I beg you''' to "'''listen to what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES'''" as Jesus said, because the Lord Jesus said, "'''He that rejecteth me, ''and receiveth not my words'', hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day'''". Lord have mercy. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 09:07, 13 July 2020 (EDT) (''composed just before the comment below, between 07:00 and 08:06 CDT'')<br>I want to quickly add and emphasize that the Church by the inspired mercy of the Holy Spirit in her acknowledges the truth of [[invincible ignorance]]. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 09:30, 13 July 2020 (EDT) (8:29 CDT)
:::::DC: Above Nishant says the Holy Spirit is given at baptism. You wanna take a swing at that one and try to support it with scripture? (you and me may have been over this ground and, if my recollection is correct, you may have agreed with me that it is not).
:::::I'll try to make our interactions swift, to the point, and brief cause I know the stress the ultraviolet rays from the screen put on one's eyes. So, I'm willing to do my part to make our interactions productive for young students to observe.
:::::If you are so all-fired convinced that you Magisterium is on the right track with Bible interoperation, you shouldn't need them anymore. You should be able to take your guidance from them in private study, measure it up against the Word of God, and by pass any reference to them when posting here on question of biblical understanding and biblical interpretation. We are not interested in you regurgitating catechism that anyone can read for themselves with a few clicks. We're interested in hearing your understanding. To keep repeating "My understanding is their understanding" is like talking to a brick wall. Come out from under you shell. Show yourself. God's not gonna send you to hell for it.
:::::We know your stance. The Pope's always right. Good. Fine. You don't have to keep repeating it. Now tell me, is IndependentSkeptic correct in his understanding of Matthew 18, verses 15 and verse 22?
:::::And if you don't want to read through all his garbage, then post up what verse 15 means and what verse 22 means.
:::::Look, this request is no biggee. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:50, 13 July 2020 (EDT)
Excommunication in Mat 18:15-18 itself shows there is Only One True Church, and that this Church is Visible and Apostolic, and can be identified easily by all; moreover, that this Church has the Keys of Heaven to bind and loose on earth, to issue binding dogmatic and disciplinary pronouncements. Which Church meets the requirements of the Biblical Church? The Catholic Church of course. She is visible, Apostolic, One, and issues binding doctrinal and disciplinary pronouncements including excommunication, like how Martin Luther for e.g. was excommunicated from Her. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 08:25, 13 July 2020 (EDT)
Excommunication in Mat 18:15-18 itself shows there is Only One True Church, and that this Church is Visible and Apostolic, and can be identified easily by all; moreover, that this Church has the Keys of Heaven to bind and loose on earth, to issue binding dogmatic and disciplinary pronouncements. Which Church meets the requirements of the Biblical Church? The Catholic Church of course. She is visible, Apostolic, One, and issues binding doctrinal and disciplinary pronouncements including excommunication, like how Martin Luther for e.g. was excommunicated from Her. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 08:25, 13 July 2020 (EDT)