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Debate:Does the Catholic Church have the biblical authority of Christ Himself to preach and to teach the truth forever? (view source)
Revision as of 21:14, August 5, 2020
, 21:14, August 5, 2020→Peter the Rock
The Greek of the New Testament indisputably shows that Peter is the rock, not Jesus: '''πέτρος''' Greek '''Petros''' as an appellative: thou art a '''rock''', Aram. '''<big>כֵּיפָא</big> ''kepa'''''. The form '''ὁ πέτρος''' is likewise common among classical writers, and that <u>not merely in the sense of a stone</u>, as everywhere in Homer in contradistinction to '''πέτρα''' Greek '''petra''' (see Duncan, p. 937, ed. Rost, and Buttmann, Lexil. II. p. 179), <u>but also as meaning a '''rock'''</u> (Plat. Ax. p. 371 E: '''Σισύφου πέτρος'''; Soph. Phil. 272, O. C. 19, 1591; Pind. Nem. iv. 46, x. 126). Jesus declares Peter to be a '''rock''' on account of that strong and stedfast faith in himself to which, under the influence of a special revelation from God, he had just given expression. According to '''John 1:43''', however, Jesus conferred the Grecized form of the name '''Cephas ''Kepas''''' Aram. '''<big>כֵּיפָא</big> ''kepa'' rock''' upon him at their very first interview (according to '''Mark 3:16''', somewhat later); but our passage '''Matthew 16:18''' is not to be understood as simply recording the giving of the name, or the giving of it for the second time. It is rather intended to be taken as a record of the declaration made by Jesus, to the effect that '''Simon''' was in reality all that the name, conferred upon him, ''implied''. Consequently our passage is in no way inconsistent with that of '''John 1:43''' just referred to, which could only have been the case if the words used had been '''σὺ κληθήσῃ Πέτρος'''.
The Greek of the New Testament indisputably shows that Peter is the rock, not Jesus: '''πέτρος''' Greek '''Petros''' as an appellative: thou art a '''rock''', Aram. '''<big>כֵּיפָא</big> ''kepa'''''. The form '''ὁ πέτρος''' is likewise common among classical writers, and that <u>not merely in the sense of a stone</u>, as everywhere in Homer in contradistinction to '''πέτρα''' Greek '''petra''' (see Duncan, p. 937, ed. Rost, and Buttmann, Lexil. II. p. 179), <u>but also as meaning a '''rock'''</u> (Plat. Ax. p. 371 E: '''Σισύφου πέτρος'''; Soph. Phil. 272, O. C. 19, 1591; Pind. Nem. iv. 46, x. 126). Jesus declares Peter to be a '''rock''' on account of that strong and stedfast faith in himself to which, under the influence of a special revelation from God, he had just given expression. According to '''John 1:43''', however, Jesus conferred the Grecized form of the name '''Cephas ''Kepas''''' Aram. '''<big>כֵּיפָא</big> ''kepa'' rock''' upon him at their very first interview (according to '''Mark 3:16''', somewhat later); but our passage '''Matthew 16:18''' is not to be understood as simply recording the giving of the name, or the giving of it for the second time. It is rather intended to be taken as a record of the declaration made by Jesus, to the effect that '''Simon''' was in reality all that the name, conferred upon him, ''implied''. Consequently our passage is in no way inconsistent with that of '''John 1:43''' just referred to, which could only have been the case if the words used had been '''σὺ κληθήσῃ Πέτρος'''.
'''καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ''' The Greek emphasis is on '''ΤΑΎΤῌ ταύτῃ''', which points to Peter (not to Jesus, as Augustine would have us suppose), and to be understood thus: '''on no other than on this rock'''. —'''https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/16-18.htm''' <ref>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:NishantXavier&diff=prev&oldid=1674432</ref>
::Response:
::Response:
::*''The letter killeth; the spirit gives life.''
::*''The letter killeth; the spirit gives life.''
::*''The stone which the builders rejected has become head of the corner.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 14:58, 5 August 2020 (EDT)
::*''The stone which the builders rejected has become head of the corner.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 14:58, 5 August 2020 (EDT)
:::Thanks for the move of the above commentary on the Greek of Matthew 16:18 to this Debate page. But simply FYI, it isn't "my own comment". That's why I didn't sign it. I plainly copied the stated expertise of an established and internationally reputable Greek linguist from the biblehub.com commentaries on Matthew 16:18 and "signed" it with a link to the actual online source. What he says about the Greek grammatical import of the passage is simply a fact plainly and clearly not open to debate. It says what it says. This expert linguist and scholar simply states what the Greek of the scripture passage states. There is no debate about its meaning among the international community of Bible linguistic experts in Greek. He says the meaning is clear. All of them agree. It points to Peter as the rock Jesus referred to. "''I say to you, you are a rock, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.''" I felt that it would be useful as a fact truthfully presented as an indisputable fact. It was not intended to provoke disputatious debate. How could anyone argue with such a fact, the grammatical structure according to the Greek meaning pointing directly to Peter, not Jesus? I'm glad it's been posted onto this Debate page where it might be most useful to seekers of truth who want to know what Jesus really meant according to the original Greek. It's even more interesting to me that not one of the extant manuscripts containing Matthew 16:18 vary in any way from each other. They all say the same exact thing. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:14, 5 August 2020 (EDT)
==See also==
==See also==