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Talk:Debate: Is the Roman Catholic doctrine of grace biblical? (view source)
Revision as of 16:44, August 25, 2020
, 16:44, August 25, 2020→Debate: Is the Roman Catholic doctrine of grace biblical
::::::::::You also know full well that Jesus established the authority of the Church led into all the truth forever by the Spirit of truth and that the authority of the leaders of the Church is of God (2 Corinthians 5:19-20), not of men, and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "The baptism of John: was it of God or of men? Answer me." A similar issue confronts the Bible Christian who denies and resists the higher authority of the church Jesus built on a rock, the church that is the pillar and foundation/ground/bulwark of the truth. Is the word of Jesus the word of God or of men? Answer. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:21, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::::::::You also know full well that Jesus established the authority of the Church led into all the truth forever by the Spirit of truth and that the authority of the leaders of the Church is of God (2 Corinthians 5:19-20), not of men, and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "The baptism of John: was it of God or of men? Answer me." A similar issue confronts the Bible Christian who denies and resists the higher authority of the church Jesus built on a rock, the church that is the pillar and foundation/ground/bulwark of the truth. Is the word of Jesus the word of God or of men? Answer. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:21, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::::No I don't. You keep mouthing the lines by the author of confusion that the Rock the Church is built upon ''is not'' Christ. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:26, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::::No I don't. You keep mouthing the lines by the author of confusion that the Rock the Church is built upon ''is not'' Christ. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:26, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::::::::::"I say to you, you are a Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18 --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:44, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::Let me pause momentarily for a comment on ''render unto Caesar''; in both Catholic and Protestant sermons I've heard this to mean, "pay your taxes", while the teaching here, which is before everybody's face, is usually ignored. Jesus asks, ''Whose image and inscription is this?''. Man was created in God's image. Render unto God what is God's. Jesus is saying, render yourself unto God, this is by far a more important teaching for the Christian believer than "pay your taxes". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:23, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::Let me pause momentarily for a comment on ''render unto Caesar''; in both Catholic and Protestant sermons I've heard this to mean, "pay your taxes", while the teaching here, which is before everybody's face, is usually ignored. Jesus asks, ''Whose image and inscription is this?''. Man was created in God's image. Render unto God what is God's. Jesus is saying, render yourself unto God, this is by far a more important teaching for the Christian believer than "pay your taxes". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:23, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::The leaders of the Church are likewise the image of God. And they have authority established by God, as given by him from the Holy Spirit distributing his gifts to them for their ministry, and whoever resists the authority receives condemnation. Render yourself unto God under their established authority which they have from him as instituted and ordained by him. Jesus told his representatives sent by him, "Whoever hears you hears Me, and whoever hears Me hears him who sent Me." They are ambassadors of God, as if God speaks by them, they urge you in the name of God, "Be reconciled to God." --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:30, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::The leaders of the Church are likewise the image of God. They are living stones (1 Peter 2:4-5). TThey are living stones (1 Peter 2:4-5). And they have authority established by God for there is no authority except what God has established, as given by him from the Holy Spirit distributing his gifts to them for their ministry, and whoever resists the authority receives condemnation. Render yourself unto God under their established authority which they have from him as instituted and ordained by him. Jesus told his representatives sent by him, "Whoever hears you hears Me, and whoever hears Me hears him who sent Me." They are ambassadors of God, as if God speaks by them, they urge you in the name of God, "Be reconciled to God." --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:30, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::There you are again. Preaching the authority of men and not the authority of God. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:36, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::There you are again. Preaching the authority of men and not the authority of God. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:36, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::They have the authority established by God. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:44, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
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