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| | :::::::Blair's wife is Roman Catholic, and the kids are too as I understand. Fayed was a Muslim, and the child Princess Di was carrying at the time of her death would have a had a rightful claim to the throne under certain circumstnces. | | :::::::Blair's wife is Roman Catholic, and the kids are too as I understand. Fayed was a Muslim, and the child Princess Di was carrying at the time of her death would have a had a rightful claim to the throne under certain circumstnces. |
| | :::::::The logic of your argument above appears quite anti-progressive, and [[reactionary]], does it not? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 17:14, 10 August 2007 (EDT) | | :::::::The logic of your argument above appears quite anti-progressive, and [[reactionary]], does it not? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 17:14, 10 August 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | == Errors in the article ==
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| − | I will quote the error and explain why it's wrong. I can't edit the article so I expect someone to make these necessary changes.
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| − | "Many of the most notoriously oppressive dictatorships have been socialist, such as the Soviet Union and National Socialist Germany"
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| − | :National Socialist Germany was not socialist. It's laughable to claim that the best example throughout history of a fascist government was socialist. Hitler backed the fascists against the republicans and the socialists in the Spanish Civil War of 1936.
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| − | ::That arguments going no where.
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| − | "socialism stresses the privileges of the nomenklatura over the rights of workers and earners."
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| − | :Maybe it could be argued that Communism in actuality exhibits this feature but this article isn't about Communism it's about socialism as an intellectual idea. Socialism is very much a worker's rights philosophy. I've never even heard of this term 'nomenklatura'. I'd like to see a scholarly source for this claim.
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| − | ::We don't really give a rip about commie/socialist double talk to disclaim and deny the historical record.
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| − | "Wage earners suffer under Socialism, as it is hard to get paid in a system that discourages private persons from accumulating income."
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| − | :See European Union and the higher standard of living under their socialist regime that they enjoy compared to Americans.
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| − | ::Right. For those lucky enough to have jobs.
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| − | "Karl Marx considered socialism to be a transitory stage between capitalism and communism."
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| − | :This is just wrong and betrays a lack of knowledge of what Karl Marx wrote.
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| − | ::That bit was put in by a fellow traveller.
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| − | "A major criticism of socialism is that it infringes individual rights in favor of the populace."
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| − | :Whose major criticism? Should this be juxtaposed to Liberalism (a belief I expect the author would equally dislike) in which the rights of the minority are given weight over the will of the majority?
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| − | ::Critics of Socialism. There are other people in the world, you know. They are [[human being]]s, and the ''do'' have certain basic rights, despite Socialist endless campaign against them.
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| − | "Although socialist parties are common in Europe, the leading examples all currently embrace some free enterprise, individual property rights and certain other aspects of capitalism" +
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| − | - :This sentence contradicts everything the article just stated about socialism. In sum the article says: "Socialism is this and this and this, however, most socialists are none of those things"
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| − | ::That again is more commie-rot put in by a fellow traveller.
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| − | "In many European countries socialism has been changing to Social democracy."
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| − | :Where does this information come from? This betrays a lack of knowledge of European political parties. There is a Democratic Socialist party which is very distinct from other socialist parties.
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| − | ::Another fellow traveller.
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| − | I think if this website or the authors and readers of it have any earnest desire to seek after the truth then very major changes are necessary.
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| − | This is by no means a defense of socialism though I am one. However, you can't intellectually debate a movement or a philosophy by assuming it is one thing or constructing a strawman out of it and debating against that construction. You should know the truth about it. For example, I don't believe in fascism, but I won't argue against fascism by first claiming that all fascists are pedophiles and because pedophilia is wrong so is fascism.
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| − | Again, I would contribute to the article myself but there's no option for an edit.
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| − | Thanks [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 16:18, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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| − | ::We've got plenty of the 'Socialist' POV in here, and this article isn't going to be taken over by competing factions in sectartian dispute with each other. We want what comes nearest to reflecting what the historical record shows. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:36, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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| − | :::Hi, RobS, I appreciate your attention to this article. You are disturbing me, however, by refusing to cite your sweeping generalizations by simply assigning statements to "critics of socialism."
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| − | :::Also, you refuse to engage me intellectual you come off as very aggressive and denigrating. Your responses to my comments range from "That arguments going no where" to "[I] don't really give a rip." For the statements I presume you would agree with me you simply claim they were put in by "fellow travelers." If this is true then I trust you would in a spirit of seeking the truth edit these claims.
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| − | :::You are being very unreasonable and are failing to use any form of argument or logic to defend these outrageous claims. I would appreciate a little more humility. [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 16:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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| − | ::::There's plenty of critics. We can begin with maybe Solzhenitsyn (there are so many others, but let's use him for now), despite the efforts by [[Marxist]]s to shut him up.
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| − | ::::Bottom line, there's no need to debate this trash. Deniers of the Marxist [[democide]] walk a thin line; [[Holocaust denial]] is given no credence to by virtually any credible forum, and appologists and deniers of the [[mass murder]] of 135,000,000 human beings in recent memory done in the name of [[Karl Marx]], ''et al'', need to read Conservapedia's Commandments and Guidelines. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 17:04, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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| − | :::::Did I say I deny that many murders were done in the name of Marx? No, I stated the opposite. I fully acknowledge that.
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| − | :::::You are making a logical fallacy I have pointed out to you often. It is very simple.
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| − | :::::If I murdered you in the name of Jesus Christ does that make Jesus Christ a murderer and an advocate of murder? No, it doesn't. Karl Marx didn't write "KILL ALL CAPITALISTS, START SECRET POLICE, AND BUILD NUKES TO FIGHT AMERICA!!!" Stalin was a murderer, Marx was a philosopher of the 1800s. You are being very ignorant.
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| − | :::::Do you deny the Spaniard conquistadors committed a democide against Native Americans in the name of Catholicism? Is Christianity somehow evil because they did that? [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 17:12, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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| − | ::::::I think you will find the arguments you've made above well articulated in CP. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 17:17, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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| − | :::::::Ok, you're right and I'm wrong. Everything I know is wrong. Socialism is the most horrible and offensive idea on the planet. CEOs deserve their millions of dollars, corporations do not need the government interfering in their business of hiring workers in a free market. Hands off the economy works all the time. Sweatshops in Guam are good because it's a free market. Hey, my CEO says I have to get an abortion because he doesn't want to pay maternity leave. Well, thats fine it's a free market I'll get another job, OH WAIT I CAN'T I'M A POOR UNEDUCATED WORKER IN AN AMERICAN COLONY LIKE GUAM. Guess it's abortion time. THANKS CAPITALISM YOU'RE THE BEST. ESPECIALLAY COMPARED TO THAT GODLESS SOCIALISM COMMUNISM PINKO WHATEVER THE HECK IT IS. GOD BLESS CORPORATIONS AND THE FREE MARKET!!! GOD BLESS CAPITALISM!!!! Europe is just a bunch of lazy, communist, wellfare abusing, unemployed, and uneducated atheists. Their economy is growing faster than America's because they must be using special Satan power to boost it up.[[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 17:25, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
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