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→Definition and implications
Additionally, Satanism as defined in [[Church of Satan]] is not a joke nor a parody anymore so than wicca is. The definitions and beliefs described there show a different approach than wicca to natural power and magic, but it is honestly believed by some. --[[User:Rutm|Rutm]] 11:19, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
Additionally, Satanism as defined in [[Church of Satan]] is not a joke nor a parody anymore so than wicca is. The definitions and beliefs described there show a different approach than wicca to natural power and magic, but it is honestly believed by some. --[[User:Rutm|Rutm]] 11:19, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
::I don't know the Church of Satan that much, but it struck me simple as an anti-church, with "anti" in its adolescent meaning. If it is an actual religion, feel free to move it to monotheism, or what ever category seems most suitable. But I wouldn't put it it there if it is just a joke which is taken too seriously by people outside of this cult, say their parents, because it refers to satanism. In that case they would have achieved their goal of upsetting their parents. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:11, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
:I'm inclined to think that "morals, afterlife, or the supernatural" restricts the meaning too much, although I'm not sure. What does "core beliefs" cover that are not covered in those?
:I'm inclined to think that "morals, afterlife, or the supernatural" restricts the meaning too much, although I'm not sure. What does "core beliefs" cover that are not covered in those?
:Even by your definition, you can't exclude Atheism, because Atheism has a belief about the supernatural (that it doesn't exist), and their choices ''are'' based on this. If they think that there is no God to Whom they are answerable, they will make different choices than a Christian who believes that there ''is'' a God to Whom they are answerable. And of course the same applies for agnosticism. In fact, it is this point that makes agnosticism so similar to Atheism—the fact that their respective beliefs (no God vs. not knowing if there's a God) generally have the same outcome—that God is not a factor in their decisions.
:Even by your definition, you can't exclude Atheism, because Atheism has a belief about the supernatural (that it doesn't exist), and their choices ''are'' based on this. If they think that there is no God to Whom they are answerable, they will make different choices than a Christian who believes that there ''is'' a God to Whom they are answerable. And of course the same applies for agnosticism. In fact, it is this point that makes agnosticism so similar to Atheism—the fact that their respective beliefs (no God vs. not knowing if there's a God) generally have the same outcome—that God is not a factor in their decisions.
:[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 14:21, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
:[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 14:21, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
::The word religion has a few different meanings. And most definitions in MW refer to beliefs in the divine and the supernatural. And only one definition refers to the broader meaning as a set of core beliefs. That is a useful distinction, and we should make it too. There is a difference between the Roman Catholic Church, and a bunch of person who have no belief and don't quite care, as many agnostics or "no-religion" people do. And in the article, and I tried to do this, I tried to make the distinction between actual religions, like the once included ARDA overview, and philosophies and systems of beliefs such as secular humanism. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:11, 8 September 2007 (EDT)