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Reverted edits by Jay (Talk); changed back to last version by Bolly
{{welcome|sig=[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 19:58, 5 December 2007 (EST)}}
==Abortion==
The page was getting a bit cluttered :-)
The single difference between me and you here is that I regard the unborn child as a living person. I'll give you a great example of a Utilitarian argument. Five people are stuck in a cave that is rapidly filling up with water. One of the five see's a way out, but on his way out he gets stuck in the spot of escape and unable to budge (Because he is so fat, the analogy is 'the innocent fat man') The remaining four have enough dynamite to blow him up and thus escape.
I follow the Christian teachings of virtue very closely. It is morally wrong to kill in order so that you may live. A Utilitarian would advocate killing the innocent fat man so as to free the remaining four.
My view on abortion is fundamentally tied to the fact that I look upon a 'fetus', as pro-abortion groups call it, as a '''human life'''. Human life is sacred and there is no excuse for the murder of that individual life. [[User:ModerateCatholic|ModerateCatholic]] 20:13, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:You're right, it was getting rather confusing, thanks.
:Yes I think that is the point of disagreement. And you are correct in terms of the utilitarian argument, however I think you may have slightly misunderstood part of it. I agree that it is generally wrong to kill in order for you to live, however it is fine for you to kill in order to save three other people, in this case. Considering that they are all innocent lives, and none is worth more then the other, the person who used the dynamite to blow up the 'fat man' would not be killing one person, he would be saving three people. That is the greatest good for the greatest number, for the least harm.
:Of course my view on abortion is closely tied to the fact that I see a foetus as not a human. Because of that, it is not sacred and the mother, who is a human comes first. There is (in my opinion) generally no excuse for murder, however there are circumstances allow killing. The Colorado springs shooter is a great example of this, he was shot to save lives. I agree that that killing was justified in the circumstances, although I probably would have preferred a non-fatal shot that incapicitated the shooter, I understand that it's a lot easier to say that compared to the person who was actually trying to stop him. [[User:Bolly|Bolly]] 13:21, 15 December 2007