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Talk:Opposition to classroom prayer (view source)
Revision as of 13:08, April 1, 2008
, 13:08, April 1, 2008no edit summary
: "Secular" means public, and reflects public beliefs, as in saying the Pledge of Allegiance, reciting a prayer during the beginning of a congressional session, or swearing in a new president through use of a [[Bible]]. Public schools are more properly described as [[atheistic]], where religion is affirmatively censored.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:17, 1 January 2008 (EST)
: "Secular" means public, and reflects public beliefs, as in saying the Pledge of Allegiance, reciting a prayer during the beginning of a congressional session, or swearing in a new president through use of a [[Bible]]. Public schools are more properly described as [[atheistic]], where religion is affirmatively censored.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:17, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:: Public schools take no position on belief or non-belief. If they affirmed that their is no God, then they would be "atheistic." Because they are neutral on the belief issue entirely, they are accurately described as "secular." --[[User:CPlantin|CPlantin]] 8:06, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
::"Secular" means separate from religion. It does not imply public. Also there is no prohibition of prayer in school. That is also protected by the first amendment. Students can pray any time without disrupting the school. What the critics are against is being forced to attend the prayer or the prayer being led by an authoritative figure like teacher. So it is not atheistic , just secular.--[[User:JBuscombe|JBuscombe]] 13:22, 1 January 2008 (EST)
::"Secular" means separate from religion. It does not imply public. Also there is no prohibition of prayer in school. That is also protected by the first amendment. Students can pray any time without disrupting the school. What the critics are against is being forced to attend the prayer or the prayer being led by an authoritative figure like teacher. So it is not atheistic , just secular.--[[User:JBuscombe|JBuscombe]] 13:22, 1 January 2008 (EST)
::: There is a prohibition on prayer in [[public school]], and it is deceitful to pretend otherwise. The prayers that start legislative sessions through the [[United States]] cannot be said to start the schoolday or a class in [[public school]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)
::: There is a prohibition on prayer in [[public school]], and it is deceitful to pretend otherwise. The prayers that start legislative sessions through the [[United States]] cannot be said to start the schoolday or a class in [[public school]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:::: Indeed, spoken prayer in instructional settings is not allowed in schools but does take place in some governmental bodies (in the US). The difference here is that children are impressionable, more prone to peer and teacher influence, and ultimately are the responsibility of the parents. I know of no parents that would want their children to be led in prayer by someone of another religion. Adults on the other hand, are mature and able to make their own decisions and understand the formal setting. Children, being guided by teachers in prayer, would logically feel comfortable enough to ask them questions about religion and think of what a slippery slope that would be. I know people well, and from the same family, that have heartfelt, but contradictory views about their beliefs -- so much so that they split, one branch of the family going to the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran Church (a conservative branch) and the other to the Wisconsin Synod (even more conservative). Believe me, they would not want their children to be subjected to the religious influence (in prayer or in discussions) of people from another synod within the Lutheran Church. And lastly, Jesus admonished followers to pray privately. Many believe that it is best for families and churches to have complete control. Children have have always had the right (sometimes wrongly challenged, to be sure) to pray on their own outside of instructional settings. If so moved, any child can say a silent prayer before (hopefully not during) any class.
:::: Are you happy for your child to be forced to sit through an islamic prayer led by a Muslim teacher every day? --[[User:JBuscombe|JBuscombe]] 14:35, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:::: Are you happy for your child to be forced to sit through an islamic prayer led by a Muslim teacher every day? --[[User:JBuscombe|JBuscombe]] 14:35, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:::: 5 times a day, actually. [[User:SSchultz|SSchultz]] 14:39, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:::: 5 times a day, actually. [[User:SSchultz|SSchultz]] 14:39, 1 January 2008 (EST)
Not necessarily - the dawn, sunset, and dusk ones would probably not be during the school day, unless one was boarding/homeschooling. Also, in an avowedly liberal school over here in the UK, I can pray whenever I want, so long as it doesn't disrupt teaching. --[[User:JOwen|JOwen]]
Not necessarily - the dawn, sunset, and dusk ones would probably not be during the school day, unless one was boarding/homeschooling. Also, in an avowedly liberal school over here in the UK, I can pray whenever I want, so long as it doesn't disrupt teaching. --[[User:JOwen|JOwen]]
: "Secular" means that the schools (and the government) take no position on belief. They do not affirm belief in a particular religion and no not affirm that there is no God. If schools issued statements or had classes recite statements about belief or disbelief, then they would no longer be secular. Being secular is being neutral on the issue. Some Christians do not want their children to be in classes in which prayers are led by teachers whose beliefs might be different from their own, whether from other religions or even from other denominations of Protestantism. Therefore, public schools are not atheistic, but rather secular.--[[User:CPlantin|CPlantin]] 7:47, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
Although I essentially side with Andy on this issue, I was going to say that I don't agree with him on the definition of "secular". However, in checking my facts, it appears that Andy is closer to the truth that anyone here has given him credit for, even if the particular way he expressed it is not exactly right.
Although I essentially side with Andy on this issue, I was going to say that I don't agree with him on the definition of "secular". However, in checking my facts, it appears that Andy is closer to the truth that anyone here has given him credit for, even if the particular way he expressed it is not exactly right.