Talk:Essay:Best Conservapedia insights about the Bible

Precise? Preposterous! Andy, for your "insight" to work, one of the most frequent words of the Gospels, λέγω, which is used consistently to mean "to speak (aloud)" has to switch its meaning to the opposite "to observe (silently)" in Mark 4:39! And this only once, while even in the surrounding verses Mark 4:38, Mark 4:40, Mark 4:41, it is still used as "to speak (aloud)": for details read Talk:Biblical_scientific_foreknowledge#Calming_the_Storm (really, please do read this section diligently!).

It comes as no surprise that no one with a working knowledge of Biblical Greek shares your insight! --AugustO (talk) 02:19, 31 March 2017 (EDT)

It is too, right. You have a terrible understanding of Greek: classical, septuagint, koine—you name it. You are not numbered among those who have mastered the language. How do you know Mark isn't inducing in the reader a feeling of surprise by using that very word? First he describes the unexpected change and study in contrasts in verbal usage from conversational to a true perception (making any kind of conversation unneeded) and back to conversational. And as a finishing (divine) touch, the disciples are still held captive by a non-spiritual interpretation of what had happened (a miracle of faith).

This is one interpretation, and a reader not used to thinking spiritually along with the disciples at that point would anticipate the disciples' perplexity from their own reaction and, like the disciples, might only grasp the spiritual insight into Jesus' works by his empty tomb, after the reader reads the account and believes. VargasMilan (talk) 07:30, 1 April 2017 (EDT)

I recommend that VargasMilan show a little more respect for the person who is probably Conservapedia's best expert on Greek, and that he refrain from personal attacks like "You have a terrible understanding of Greek ...". While I don't know any Greek, I have been following the August/Andy controversy for years, and it is very obvious that August knows what he is talking about when he discusses the various details of Greek language and grammar, whereas Andy is unable to keep up. August has significant formal education in Greek.

I've seen this kind of blind support for Andy's positions before, in the area of relativity. And, sure enough, Vargas's name shows up there too. I particularly recommend Talk:Logical_Flaws_in_E%3Dmc%C2%B2, where Vargas holds forth on error analysis at a level that knowledgeable people moved beyond long ago. And, incidentally, gives a detailed analysis of the derivative of x³.

VargasMilan would do well to do his own thinking and writing, and stay away from personal attacks. SamHB (talk) 13:27, 1 April 2017 (EDT)

@SamHB: Thank you for your kind support! I don't care much about the baseless slurs, I just enjoy the content of the animated discussion.

@VargasMilan:

• yes, I'm not a great master of the Greek language, I first learnt classical Greek at school, and got into Biblical Greek later on. I enjoy the opportunity to extend my knowledge here at the CBP, but I'm just an amateur. But any pupil after his first year is able to differentiate between nominative, genitive, accusative and dative. Unfortunately, that's enough to have superior knowledge to Andrew Schlafly.
• à propos accusative and dative: when the verb λέγω was used in Homer's time in the sense of "lay down", it was used transitively, i.e., you would read καὶ εἶπεν τὴν θάλασσαν. But we read καὶ εἶπεν τῇ θαλάσσῃ - the dative. So, the insight doesn't work grammatically. It is preposterous to assume that Mark singled out one in hundreds of usages of the verb λέγω to be a throwback to the classical period, but then got the case wrong!
• The rich English language allows us to simulate this spiritual insight in a quite literal translation:

καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν ἐν τῇ πρύμνῃ ἐπὶ τὸ προσκεφάλαιον καθεύδων· καὶ ἐγείρουσιν αὐτὸν καὶ λέγουσιν αὐτῷ Διδάσκαλε, οὐ μέλει σοι ὅτι ἀπολλύμεθα; καὶ διεγερθεὶς ἐπετίμησεν τῷ ἀνέμῳ καὶ εἶπεν τῇ θαλάσσῃ Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο. καὶ ἐκόπασεν ὁ ἄνεμος, καὶ ἐγένετο γαλήνη μεγάλη. καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Τί δειλοί ἐστε οὕτως; πῶς οὐκ ἔχετε πίστιν;

And He was in the stern sleeping on a cushion. And they wake Him up and tell Him Teacher, doesn't it concern you that we are going to die? And being awake, He rebuked the wind and He told the sea Silence, be still And the wind fell and there was a great calm. And He told them Why are you fearful, have you still no faith?

Did you spot it? No? Now, the second use of to tell (He told the sea) is obviously the Old English to think, to esteem, as it was used before 1000 A.D., while anywhere else on Conservapedia to tell is used in the modern English sense. Preposterous! That's how a contemporary of Mark must have experienced this insight.

• Looking through the history of the CBP, there are many examples of editors who egged Andrew Schlafly on, counting on his short attention span, preference of flattery over honest feed-back, and lack of interest for details. Time and time again those editors have been unmasked as trolls and parodists, trying to debase the CBP further more. Let's hope that here we find the exemption of the rule, otherwise this whole exercise is an even greater waste of time than usual.

--AugustO (talk) 17:18, 1 April 2017 (EDT)