Talk:Left Behind: Eternal Forces

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Urushnor (talk | contribs) at 22:30, March 9, 2008. It may differ significantly from current revision.
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Uhhh... criticism of issues within the game isn't allowed? Barikada 13:32, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Sure it is, but snarky, unsourced (love the hypocrisy of that) edits like yours aren't. Jinxmchue 13:42, 23 January 2008 (EST)
I think I may have misinterpreted that statement, but... Sir, are you accusing me of making nothing but snarky, hypocritcal edits? For that matter, how is it hypocritical? Barikada 13:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
That edit was snarky and hypocritical, yes. It is snarky because it was made simply to be obnoxious and hypocritical because you questioned unsourced material in the Video game article. Jinxmchue 13:48, 23 January 2008 (EST)
Ah. Gotcha. Sorry for misinterpreting what you said, then. I shall read more carefully next time. Barikada 13:49, 23 January 2008 (EST)
There is a large and well referenced section on controversy and criticism. All you added was unreferenced parody. Learn together 13:43, 23 January 2008 (EST)
All of which focuses on claims made before the game came out. It wasn't parody. Barikada 13:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
Wait, what am I talking about? The last sentence was. Barikada 13:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
So you freely admit you learned nothing from your recent block and are continuing to edit disruptively? Jinxmchue 13:50, 23 January 2008 (EST)

I've edited the 'controversy and criticism' section to be a bit more accurate. With the exception of Max Blumenthal's blog, the cited sources do not, in fact, criticise the game - they report others criticising the game, and also give quotes from Left Behind Games refuting that criticism. Urushnor 16:46, 6 March 2008 (EST)


Jinxmchue, I do not know why you keep reverting my edit. You seem to be trying to say that all of the complaints have been addressed by patches. This is simply not the case. You provided a URL that would allow me to purchase an add-on CD that would update the game with the Tribulation Forces expansion. Well, that's a paid-for expansion, not a free patch. If you were directing me to the patchnotes for the various patches to the base game underneath that, if you compare that with the complaints voiced in the various sources in the article, this simply proves that not all the complaints have been addressed. Urushnor 15:28, 7 March 2008 (EST)

"Many" and "most" also mean "more than one and less than all of them." Why not use those words (which actually would be more accurate since there are very few issues left (if any) regarding the original criticisms)? My link in my summary was to provide an idea of the number of issues Left Behind Games has addressed with their upgrades. The list is dozens of items long. How many more issues do you think are left to address? And despite what you erroneously think, saying "Left Behind Games subsequently issued several patches to address the complaints" does not automatically imply all the issues have been addressed. Jinxmchue 15:53, 7 March 2008 (EST)
Well, if you were saying that 'many' or 'most' is more accurate, why did YOU not change it to that, instead of reverting it to remove any word that suggested not all the complaints had been addressed? I would actually say that 'some' is more accurate anyway, as whilst quite a few of the complaints have been addressed, it seems to be some of the ones that aren't are actually the most severe ('lousy controls' and the poor graphics for two examples). As to your statement, 'despite what you erroneously think, saying "Left Behind Games subsequently issued several patches to address the complaints" does not automatically imply all the issues have been addressed', sorry, but yes, it does. Urushnor 08:37, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Complaints vs. patches

I intend to write up something (for Talk at least) comparing the complaints about the game to the various issues that were covered by the patches. Jinxmchue 10:12, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Already done that.
This is the list of complaints in the various reviews in the article:
  1. Lousy Controls
  2. Too much micromanagement
  3. Bad AI
  4. Poor graphics and art design
  5. Lack of single-player skirmish mode
  6. Slow multiplayer
  7. Watered-down storyline
  8. All the units look the same
  9. Repetitive gameplay
  10. Misogynistic 50s-style sexism
  11. Borderline racism (quite a number of the 'bad guys' have Arab, Indian, African, etc, names and appearances, but mysteriously lose this when they're 'recruited' and become Caucasian)
  12. Bad level design (sections of the city blocked off for no good reason, for example)
  13. Frequent crashes and lock-ups
  14. Seems to give a mixed message (the subject matter and tone of the game is very righteous, but then lets you play as the Antichrist in multiplayer)
  15. Poor quality of voice-acting
  16. Too much advertising in the game

Complaints addressed in the patches:

  1. Too much micromanagement (eased but not fully addressed)
  2. Bad AI (unclear whether all isuues were addressed or not)
  3. Poor graphics and art design (partially addressed by improving the shadows on 'high end systems')
  4. Slow multiplayer
  5. Frequent crashes and lock-ups (not clear whether completely fixed)

Complaints remaining unaddressed:

  1. Lousy controls
  2. Lack of single-player skirmish mode
  3. Watered-down storyline
  4. All the units look the same
  5. Repetitive gameplay
  6. Misogynistic 50s-style sexism
  7. Borderline racism
  8. Bad level design
  9. Seems to give a mixed message
  10. Poor quality of voice-acting
  11. Too much advertising in the game

Issues fixed in the patches NOT mentioned in the reviews:

  1. Multiplayer Chat tab enabled. You can now chat with players online before you join a game.
  2. Female Recruiters added.
  3. Mission 2 - Teddy can now visit the finish zone at any time without issues.
  4. Mission 4 - Teddy can now speak to Mary.
  5. Mission 6 - The first 7 friends can be trained and the mission will now end upon bringing the final 10 friends to the Chapel (provided they are still all on your side).
  6. Mission 8 - An extra building is available to be acquired.
  7. Demons can withstand heavy physical attacks. Attack them with good spiritual warfare.
  8. Various playbalancing and fixes including sound transitions and multiplayer server list.
  9. Multiplayer Buddy List enabled.
  10. Enhanced join server screen with game parameters listed.
  11. GameSpy profile integration. Create a profile or use an existing one to create your buddy list.
  12. 3 New Multiplayer Maps including upgraded units at the start of the game for quick skirmish action.
  13. Vocal Warnings for events.
  14. Improved Sound System compatibility and sound playback.
  15. Improved LGBHelp system for better support to our users, including an auto-config based on system specs.
  16. Various mission playbalancing and fixes.
  17. When logged in with a GameSpy Profile ID, Gold and Silver users will have auto buddy list requests and their buddy’s multiplayer games will be listed first.
  18. Buddy List graphical enhancements.
  19. Winning point limit (if applicable) is shown during a multiplayer game.
  20. Improved navigation for multiplayer game creation.
  21. Demons are now displayed in a dark grey color.
  22. 4X4 Skirmish map timer fixed.
  23. Improved support for multiplayer hosting – UPnP support added.
  24. Chat filter implemented.
  25. Added more stats to the end of a multiplayer game, including an overall summary of all players.
  26. Allied units display as such when clicked in multiplayer.
  27. Multiplayer skirmish maps are easier to find on the map selection screen.
  28. Voice of God and Angels implemented for evil actions.
  29. Mission 4 - The Chapel is pinged when Mary is active.
  30. Mission 19 - Defending time shortened.
  31. Mission 23 - Phantom enemy vehicles removed.
  32. Mission 32 – Buck can get his disguise upon mission start.
  33. Mission 36 - Defending time shortened.
  34. Mission 37 – GCP Camp now pinged.
  35. Many other text revisions and mission improvements
  36. AUTO recruit improved even further – Evil units that turn neutral are now auto recruited as well.
  37. Building Icons added to the game screen for easier ID of user’s buildings.
  38. Right mouse to follow a friendly unit implemented (Alt-Right Click still works too).
  39. Multiple Helicopter spawning issue fixed.
  40. Replay Load VO overlap fixed.
  41. The Scroll description has been revised.
  42. Spiritual influence now does two times damage to demons.
  43. Alt-Tab Camera issue fixed.
  44. No longer able to attempt to follow enemy or neutral vehicles.
  45. Event noise modified.
  46. Menu enhancements providing more intuitive feedback to the user.
  47. A military unit must be in a military vehicle in order for the vehicle to fire.
  48. Sat-Com special ability has been enhanced, now a triangle will display in the minimap and H will display the type of building in the main screen.
  49. Firearm range increased slightly.
  50. Maximum number of items in inventory for each type is now 2.
  51. Minor gameplay tweaks and unit balances.
  52. Tutorial 2 - Allows for different combination of units to make the camp available.
  53. Tutorial 3 - Fixed intermittant crash after Musician was trained.
  54. Fixed crash on start occurring with the mutltiplayer enhancement pack version for some older machines.
  55. Tutorial 2 – Auto recruit is taught instead of manual recruit taking advantage of the auto recruit improvements for ease of use.
  56. Additional auto-configuration based on system specs for Intel based graphic adapters (Note: these adapters are not officially supported, but may work).
  57. Forfeit button added for multiplayer games.
  58. Gamespy buddy authorization pop-up reminder added.
  59. Multiplayer hints describing functionality of each menu button including expanded buddy list explanations.
  60. Minimap building filters. Icons are now on the minimap that will ping the type of building when activated. Make finding types of building much easier.
  61. Owned buildings now display in the players color at all times for easy recognition.
  62. Evil Hero revision to Enigma Leader.
  63. Chat window multiple selection from menu fixed.
  64. Gamespy creation or login will display a not valid warning if it has a space in the name.
  65. Password protected multiplayer games are now displayed with a lock on the join screen.
  66. Version number of server’s game is now displayed on the join screen when a game is selected.
  67. Multiplayer skirmish maps have been rebalanced to be even at the start of the game. Evil used to have 1 extra unit.
  68. New clue music.
  69. Incorrect VO not playing anymore on level 4 load screen.
  70. Mouse handedness is taken from system mouse settings and is no longer clickable from options menu. If you want to change it, use the Windows Control Panel/Mouse.
  71. Gamespy profile file no longer displays password for added protection.
  72. Screen flickering fixed when leaving a multiplayer game someone quit out of early.
  73. Lengthy email address truncating fixed on Gamespy create window.
  74. Point limit and time limit now display on multiplayer replays.
  75. Correct message now appears to the server when the client quits the game early in a 2 player game.
  76. VO pauses when the pause key is pressed.
  77. Gamespy Voice Chat muting options. Players can be muted in the game lobby and with the Chat options screen from the in-game menu. Note: Enemy players will be muted upon starting the game. Note: Port 31322 UDP must be opened to enjoy voice chatting.
  78. Microphone Volume control and testing capability within the Audio tab of the Options window.
  79. Major UI overhaul - new graphical enhancements and improvements.
  80. Collision improvements between neutral units and vehicles.
  81. Multiplayer hint toggle is now in the Game tab of the Options window.
  82. Minimap unit filters. Icons are now on the minimap that will ping the type of unit when activated. It makes finding a type of unit much easier.
  83. Unit and Building selection icons. One click selection of a unit type and one click goto building type functionality added to the interface.
  84. Units inside building displayed. When you mouse over a building with units inside, the unit icons will display on screen.
  85. Recruiting fix for fast walking neutrals - the unit will now stop to be recruited.
  86. To/From voice chat options included. Now you have the ability to choose who hears your voice chat.
  87. Text chat muting. You can now mute text chat from specific players in game.
  88. Fixed loud noise upon start on some machines.
  89. Various mission scripting enhancements for additional audio sequences.
  90. Revised Tutorial 1 by adding a neutral unit and an evil unit as visual aids.
  91. Revised Left Handed VO and text in the tutorials to be more clear.
  92. Revised missions 22, 31, and 35 to decrease difficulty.
  93. National and International Banks now have sound when clicked.
  94. A Friend was added to the start of Mission 27.
  95. Revised missions 17, 20, 23, and 30 to decrease difficulty.

Urushnor 10:44, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Not quite. Thanks for trying to beat me to the punch, though, in order to push your own agenda against this game. Oh, and I particularly liked the inclusion of "Misogynistic 50s-style sexism" and "Borderline racism." The only patch that's going to address those complaints is the one that works on the software between the complainers' ears. Jinxmchue 17:12, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, actually, I can think of a couple of ways the developers can patch in something to address those complaints, but that's pretty much irrelevant - you were originally saying ALL the complaints had been addressed by the patches, which simply isn't the case. As for your comment about 'pushing my own agenda', does this mean you are claiming the above points listed as not being in the reviews aren't in the patchnotes? Or are you saying that those points are, in fact, mentioned in the reviews? Urushnor 18:30, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

I will give DanH a chance to explain how he thinks the above information 'vindicates' Jinxmchue, so I will leave the article in it's current form. If I receive no answer, however, I will alter it to be accurate to what the above seems to indicate - that the patches fix dozens of issues, including some of the issues raised by the complaints in the reviews. Urushnor 11:07, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Threats now? I would really reconsider that if I were you. Jinxmchue 17:12, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
No, statement of intent. DanH has now seemingly understood what I was saying, so I've redone the edit. The relevant passage, in it's old form, seemed to say that all the fixes in the patches, without exception, were as a direct result of the complaints in the reviews, which, in light of the above, seems blindingly obvious is simply not the case. Urushnor 18:30, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
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