Difference between revisions of "Debate: What is sufficient proof that Obama is a Muslim?"

Latest revision as of 11:08, February 9, 2017

On the way home last night, I listened to a NPR discussion group about race and the presidential election. One woman said that Obama was a Muslim and he will be one until the day he dies. Why does she think that? Why is that belief held by some people who contribute to Conservapedia? What constitutes sufficient proof of the religious beliefs of anyone?

To start the debate I will offer that I am an atheist. My name is Michael Fredlund Anderson. I was raised in the Lutheran church.

I state that I am an atheist. Is that good enough for people to believe that I really am one? Maybe not. Even I might be skeptical if I continue to attend Lutheran services, give money to the Lutheran church and support Lutheran causes in other ways. So, I would at least want to examine my own behavior. In fact, I have not attended church for many years, I give no money to the church and do not support their causes. I just finished reading "The God Delusion" and am currently reading "Letter to a Christian Nation".

My behavior seems to fall in line with my declared atheist point of view.

I would contend that Obama's behavior seems to indicate that he is a Christian and not a Muslim. He has attend a Christian church for years, he give money to that church and supports its causes. On the other hand, he does not pray to Allah facing Mecca everyday, doesn't belong to a mosque and doesn't support Muslim causes.

If you analyse my name, it has some Christian meanings. Michael was an archangel and Michael has a literal translation of "who is like God?". Anderson is "Andrews son". Andrew was an apostale. Could it be that my name points to my true colors? Am I really a Christian and the meaning of my name shows that? Not really. I was just given a popular name by my parents and inherited Anderson and Fredlund from my parents (Fredlund was my mothers maiden name).

The same type of approach is used to suggest that Obama is really a Muslim. Look at his name right? But just like me, Obama just was given a name by his parents. It was popular. It really has no bearing on his religious beliefs.

What about slips of the tongue or use of certain expressions? For some reason I have come to say "Oh Lord" when I am exasperated with something. Am I really saying a small prayer and giving away my true colors? Nah.

I think this type of innuendo about Obama's religious beliefs has gone far enough. I think Conservapedia needs to reverse all of its edits that use tactic like those described above to paint Obama as a Muslim. They are wrong and end up creating wrong thinking in the gullible readers of things like this.

Frankly, I don't care if he is a Muslim (except that I would think he is wrong just like I think Christians are wrong). It doesn't make him a bad person or unfit to lead. But in a Christian nation, trying to claim that he is a Muslim is clearly a rotten, political trick. _{unsigned, by user: MickA.}

I agree with the above sentiments. This is supposed to be a "no gossip" website, and, by my reckoning, speculating that somebody's religion might secretly be other than what he claims it is constitutes gossip. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms to be made of Obama and his politics without resorting to crypto-racist slurs associating him with Islam. Sideways 10:13, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

The 'Obama is a muslim' myth is one of those annoying stories that will not die, in part because any attempt to argue against it merely spreads it further. If you explain in public 'Some people believe Obama is a secret muslim, but this cannot be true because...' then most people will many listening soon after 'secret muslim.' It is just part of human political nature to assume the worst of those we consider opponents, and ignore the worst in those we consider allies. Thus strongly republican people will eagerly believe any unfounded slander on Obama, in the same way that the strongly democratic are erecting various lies regarding Palin right now. This isn't a left-v-right thing: Both factions do it.

In any case, it's really unfounded - Obama is not, and never has been, a muslim. There is a rather tenuous connection - his father was an ex-muslim, and he did attend school in a muslim country (But not a religious school), and that's it. He has explicitly said he is a christian, attended church for years, donated to the church, throws in the required references to God in his speeches from time to time. The best argument they can make is to accidentially-on-purpose misspell his name as 'Osama Hussain.'

I find it entertaining that many of the people who claim that Obama is a muslim also claim his christian pastor has expressed anti-white views... wouldn't these myths be mutually exclusive? They also demand an impossible standard of proof - arguing that everything Obama does is an elaborate, perfect charade to hide his true religion, and very often claiming that it's impossible for anyone born into Islam (Which he wasn't, anyway) to ever leave it.

If these theories appear anywhere on Conservapedia, I hope they are removed before long. Criticise him honestly, don't make up lies. It's hardly difficult. NewCrusader 11:37, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

I disagree and the conclusion that a former Christian, now atheist, doesn't change his name is a bunk association. A convert to Muslim religion always changes their name. There may be truth in the fact that a Muslim that converts to Christianity doesn't change there name. If the 'now' Christian convert had a confirmation, that person would at least have a middle name that was Christian. Obamas religious beliefs are fair game, at the least due to his non-Christian beliefs in abortion and gay rights. At worst, his association with black liberation theology which targets a hatred toward other classes of people based on their religion or ethnicity, another non-Christian belief. A slip-of-tongue is acceptable and not a basis for being anti-Obama. A pattern of these is cause for concern considering his higher education. I do care that Obama is a Muslim. While the vast majority of 1 billion Muslims are peace loving individuals, it is the only religion still operating under violent oppression of women and capital punishment in the name of God. To a Muslim, non-Muslims are an enemy of God. The very fact that in America and worldwide, Muslims want an Obama presidency (even though he is Christian, an enemy of God) is a cause for alarm. BTW, I love the reconditioned format of the Obama page, very nice.-- jp 12:13, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Remember that there are some Christian denominations which embrace gay rights and even have some gay people in leadership positions. One reason that gay rights are so controversial is that good thoughtful people have come to different, strongly-held points of view about the issue. One's view of gay rights cannot be used as an accurate indication of whether one is a Christian or not. I would argue that many issues are like this. While one can articulate a general Christian list of viewpoints, people are individuals and aren't always lockstep with the general outlook of their peers. --Hsmom 22:56, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

Are you saying that Obama is a muslim and what evidence do you have? MickA 12:38, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

I don't know what to believe, but I don't believe in him. Read his Muslim background at http://newswithviews.com:80/Ryter/jon212.htm -- jp 12:44, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Let's assume that all of what this article says about his upbringing is true. How does that make him a muslim today? I was raised a Lutheran and now I am an athiest. Are you denying this? What activities in his adult life indicate that he is a muslim? Does he attend a mosque? Does he pray to Allah facing Mecca five time a day? Does he fast during Ramadan? What does he do now? Don't many of our leaders travel to countries where the majority are muslims and the leadership is muslim? Does that make them muslims? MickA 12:56, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

I think that I have made my point. I think that Conservapedia needs to retract all allegations that Obama is a muslim and make it clear that there he is a christian. I think there should be a main page retraction and the silly comment currently on the main page needs to be deleted. MickA 08:40, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

I second that proposal. Printing unfounded conjectures about anyone's religion on the main page is a bad precedent for a site that is supposed to have a 'no gossip' rule. Sideways 09:47, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

I agree with the first poster. I'm a lifelong, God-fearing Christian who voted for McCain-Palin. But I can't stomach attacking someone else for his religious views -- especially if there is not any compelling evidence that he even has those views. I don't see eye-to-eye with him on the economy, but I'm not afraid of the man, no matter what his name is. This has become just too silly, and, frankly, it embarrasses me, for people who voted for him automatically lump me in with racists and xenophobes, which I certainly am not. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them feared me. Feared me for something that they assumed about me but which was not true. I think I know how Mr. Obama feels.

We are certainly no fans of Barack Obama; in fact I spent four days in Pennsylvania campaigning for Chris Hackett for Congress and McCain for President and I don't even like MacCain but it seems to me that this whole "Obama is a Muslim" thing is largely based on a verbal slip during one interview. I like Conservapedia and it seems to me that it discredits the whole site when you keep referring to Obama as a Muslim when he has denied it. (Even if he were a Muslim he certainly is not orthodox in his beliefs and practices so it would not be valid to say that he would make policy decisions based on the Koran or historic Islamic practice.) I suppose it is okay to report on the controversy but it seems like the new links that appear on the main page are frequently based on the assumption that it is a proven fact. Stuff like that makes conservatives look like flat eath advocates. Do you really think that he is a Muslim in a meaningful way and if so is there real proof beyond his childhood schooling, that reference to "my Muslim faith" in one interview and those publicity pictures from Kenya?

By ChrisM. posted by his relative Additioner 20:29, 18 November 2008 (EST)

This is a conservative encyclopedia. Its job is to decry liberals and their ideas at every turn. By promulgating the idea that Obama may be a Muslim we are being good conservatives, because it helps to turn people off him. GloriaL 10:16, 11 December 2008 (EST)

[Written under the interpretation of spreading it regardless of its truth.] But not good Christians, and certainly not good people. I think nearly everyone would agree that spreading a rumour you believe to be false is nasty and will cause people to lose trust in you if they discover you believe it to be false. Also, lies should never be necessary to turn people off someone if they worth decrying. - JamesCA 01:55, 23 August 2011 (EDT)

This is a complicated question because 1) people can change their religion over the course of their lives, 2) people can lie about their inner feelings and beliefs, and 3) third parties can lie about a person if they have a motive or agenda. So, as to the question presented in the title, any proof that Obama is a Muslim would be sufficient if it was relatively recent, was a true measure of Obama's sincerely held beliefs, and the source was objective and not having a motivation to lie or distort. JDano (talk) 06:08, 9 February 2017 (EST)

See also: Debate:Is Obama a Muslim?