Difference between revisions of "Talk:Gallery of American Heroes"

From Conservapedia
Jump to: navigation, search
(→‎Comments on proposed additions)
Line 4: Line 4:
 
::What's to debate?  He fought for the enemy.  He's responsible for the deaths of thousands of loyal American soldiers.  If you're going to include Lee in the list, you might as well add Benedict Arnold, John Wilkes Booth, Adlrich Ames, Timothy McVeigh, and the 9/11 hijackers to the list.--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 15:03, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 
::What's to debate?  He fought for the enemy.  He's responsible for the deaths of thousands of loyal American soldiers.  If you're going to include Lee in the list, you might as well add Benedict Arnold, John Wilkes Booth, Adlrich Ames, Timothy McVeigh, and the 9/11 hijackers to the list.--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 15:03, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 
::I'd agree that "American" hero doesn't quite fit Lee. While "traitor" is a bit strong, he led an armed rebellion AGAINST the United States... hardly rationale for calling the man a hero. [[User:PhilScheur|PhilScheur]] 16:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 
::I'd agree that "American" hero doesn't quite fit Lee. While "traitor" is a bit strong, he led an armed rebellion AGAINST the United States... hardly rationale for calling the man a hero. [[User:PhilScheur|PhilScheur]] 16:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 +
 +
This is my reasoning:
 +
 +
He is a hero in the old confederate states + this states are part of the US = He is an American hero.
 +
 +
--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 19:23, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 +
 
:::To his credit, he came pretty close to being the next George Washington... but I agree, even if he'd won, he'd have been a confederate hero, not an American hero.   
 
:::To his credit, he came pretty close to being the next George Washington... but I agree, even if he'd won, he'd have been a confederate hero, not an American hero.   
 
:::On a different note - removed Barry Bonds from the links section.  With the scandals going on, he really isn't a good role model right now.[[User:Mikek|Mikek]] 15:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 
:::On a different note - removed Barry Bonds from the links section.  With the scandals going on, he really isn't a good role model right now.[[User:Mikek|Mikek]] 15:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Revision as of 00:23, December 30, 2008

I removed Robert E. Lee. He is not an American hero--he was a traitor who waged war against his country and his fellow citizens.--RossC 11:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)

I do understand your point of view; But, before removing Lee I would like to have the opinion of other editors or an honest debate. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 14:14, 16 December 2008 (EST)
What's to debate? He fought for the enemy. He's responsible for the deaths of thousands of loyal American soldiers. If you're going to include Lee in the list, you might as well add Benedict Arnold, John Wilkes Booth, Adlrich Ames, Timothy McVeigh, and the 9/11 hijackers to the list.--RossC 15:03, 16 December 2008 (EST)
I'd agree that "American" hero doesn't quite fit Lee. While "traitor" is a bit strong, he led an armed rebellion AGAINST the United States... hardly rationale for calling the man a hero. PhilScheur 16:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)

This is my reasoning:

He is a hero in the old confederate states + this states are part of the US = He is an American hero.

--User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 19:23, 29 December 2008 (EST)

To his credit, he came pretty close to being the next George Washington... but I agree, even if he'd won, he'd have been a confederate hero, not an American hero.
On a different note - removed Barry Bonds from the links section. With the scandals going on, he really isn't a good role model right now.Mikek 15:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)
There's one thing I don't understand about this page. Shouldn't the McCain picture not be so big? It's probably four times bigger than any other picture on there. JY23 15:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)
Because he's a big American hero--unlike that traitorous Lee. Let's stick to the issue, please.--RossC 15:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)
Putting McCain ahead of Washington? His image should be the same as the others, please. --DinsdaleP 19:42, 17 December 2008 (EST)

I question actor Paul Newman and the notorious drug user Elvis Presley. They are famous; they are not heroes. --Ed Poor Talk 10:34, 17 December 2008 (EST) Fixed. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 16:09, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Peyton Manning

First off, I question him as an American hero. Second, I wonder if we could find another picture? That's him in the pro-bowl and it looks like he's playing for the Arizona Cardinals. Maybe find one where he's in a Colts uniform? Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 11:33, 17 December 2008 (EST)

We need a separate category for sports idols. We can idolize someone for a reason other than heroism. --Ed Poor Talk 11:55, 17 December 2008 (EST)
That's a great idea, Ed. Good job on the picture, Joaquin. That looks much better! Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 12:01, 17 December 2008 (EST)
I wrote that page, see Gallery of Sports Idols. Add as needed. Also, does that mean we can start taking down the sports ones? JY23 12:58, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Like To See

jpatt 12:57, 17 December 2008 (EST)

  • schwarzkopf
  • reagan
  • alexander gram bell
  • wright brothers
  • john glenn
  • Charles Lindbergh
  • fdr
  • susan b. anthony
  • paul revere
  • tomb of the unknown soldiers
Good list, and the last one is particularly appropriate. One suggestion might be to categorize them (sports, military, leadership, science/discovery, etc.) In any case, I'd like to add the following:
  • The passengers of Flight 93 on Sept.11, 2001
  • The Police, Firefighters and EMT's who lost their lives helping others on 9/11/2001.
  • Michael Phelps
  • Lance Armstrong
  • Jimmy Doolittle
I'm sure more will follow once I think about this a bit. --DinsdaleP 19:39, 17 December 2008 (EST)
"The Police, Firefighters and EMT's who lost their lives helping others on 9/11/2001." - ...only the ones who died? I think I know what you were trying to get at, but the way you put it was a bit unfortunate. --AlanS 20:57, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Good point. It should say "who risked their lives", which is more inclusive. --DinsdaleP 21:56, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • Pat Tillman--jpatt 22:18, 17 December 2008 (EST)
You beat me to it, J. Good one! --DinsdaleP 08:53, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Elvis and Paul Newman are American Heroes, but adding Phyllis Schlafly gets you a three month block?

I think this article just proved to be a minefield.

Could a sysop give a definition of "American Hero" before more people get blocked for making one wrong addition here? --AlanS 22:02, 17 December 2008 (EST)

What is a hero. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 22:13, 17 December 2008 (EST)
That was my question (and I find it somewhat odd that the sysop who made a judgment call in this issue also asks it No, scratch that. I only now noticed that it was you who added most of those definitions just today, so I guess this wasn't an actual question.), but since you gave a link...
  • A hero is a [...] figure who is a person of virtue
  • They usually believe in honour and have strong morals.
  • A person noted for special achievement in a particular field
  • A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life.
While Phyllis may not have fulfilled every single one of them (even though I'm not familiar with her detailed biography, so maybe she did indeed fulfill them all), I would say she easily qualifies. But I'm sure you had your reasons for declaring her addition to be "moronic vandalism"... right? --AlanS 22:54, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Who was supposedly blocked 3 months for that? Often blocks take into consideration the totality of the edits.--aschlafly 23:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)
BrianF. See the links in the opening posts, plus contribs list. This was the only edit since December 4, and it was reverted here. --AlanS 23:07, 17 December 2008 (EST)
The "user" in question was a sock of a person from (how to put this...) a website which does not have CP's best interests at heart. Furthermore, the now-reverted addition was done at the behest of persons at said website, intended as parody. I'd post a link to the discussion of all this, but that would likely be inappropriate.--RossC 08:21, 18 December 2008 (EST)
And this influences Phyllis Schlafly being or not being an American Hero... how? Right now, this sounds a bit like "Somebody somewhere said something that caused Phyllis Schlafly to be added. Because they said she should be added, we should not add her", which would be a classic case of Reductio ad Hitlerum. I wasn't aware that people on other sites you won't even name get to decide who is an American Hero. Truth is still truth if it was added by a parodist, and it shouldn't be reverted "just because". --AlanS 16:28, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Proposed Additions

Comments on proposed additions

I think it is a good idea. I suggest to make a second page in order to make it easy to handle. You could start it with all those names. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 16:07, 18 December 2008 (EST)
Do you mean setting up pages like "Gallery of American Heroes - Exploration"? I'm wondering if we should break it down with colons, like this - "Gallery:American Heroes:Exploration", unless that's too awkward. It also allow for other collections to be organized under a "Gallery:" heading. Thoughts? --DinsdaleP 16:18, 18 December 2008 (EST)
I am thinking in a second page: "Gallery of American Heroes, Part II" --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 17:31, 18 December 2008 (EST)
How about sub-pages for some categories? Like "Gallery of American Heroes/Athletes"? All linked from the main gallery, of course. Human 17:40, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Suggestions

I came up with a few thoughts that I wrote down elsewhere during a little (ahem) vacation from CP.

First, a question. Apparently these heros are organized in roughly chronological order, correct?

Some of the thoughts I had:

  • Center the text under the photos for improved appearance.
  • Add the birth (and death) year of each hero.
  • Break up into sections (or separate pages) for:
    • Warrior and politician heroes (perhaps by historical era)
    • Sports heroes
    • Activist heroes (Tubman, Schlafly, etc.)
    • Etc.
  • If they are kept in one long list, a line mentioning what they are known for might be nice (example: Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004) Politician - with line breaks between each blurb)

And a couple of last questions:

  • Why is Babe Ruth not in with the rest of the gallery?
  • Why is John McCain's picture huge, why is his title ("Senator") missing? (In fact, all titles are missing)
  • Where the heck is President Ronald Reagan?

I don't mind effecting any of these changes, but I don't want to step on any toes by editing first and asking later. Human 17:39, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Retrieved from "https://conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Gallery_of_American_Heroes&oldid=596856"