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::It is better using the original German word for the organization; SA is only its initials. I had moved the "Brownshirts" article contents to the "StormtrooperStorm Troopers" article about a year ago. There was no need for the redundancy. I could not rename it then. It is better now, as renamed by Karajou. --[[User:JohnJustice|JohnJustice]] 22:32, 9 March 2014 (EDT):::The title of an entry should tell the reader what the subject is called in English-language secondary sources, for example an overview history book. On Wikipedia, they call this the "common name." (Although I notice that in this case Wikipedia is also using the German-language name.) English-speakers would not use the current title as a name; It is too long and awkward. [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] 00:31, 10 March 2014 (EDT)::::As long as there are re-directs to the German name herein, there should be no problem. --[[User:JohnJustice|JohnJustice]] 21:41, 12 March 2014 (EDT) ==Origins==The SA as an organization did follow the growth of the Nazi party, however the concept of Storm Troopers arises out if the 1918 German Spring Offensive and a [https://www.sciencesource.com/archive/WWI--German-Stormtroopers--1918-Spring-Offensive-SS2603706.html change in German strategy late in the war]. Stormtroopers were young recruits who hadn't experienced trench warfare, and were not trained to endure it. After a breakthrough of a line, Stormtroopers were funneled through rapidly and trained to disrupt the enemies supply lines in the rear, rather than engage in hand-to-hand combat in the trenches. They did experience some success, but were more less vastly outnumbered by arriving American troops. The success of this new strategy created a myth from which the concept of shocktroops or Stormtroopers was born (in reality, most found some alcohol by the time they reached the enemies supply lines in the rear, sat down got drunk and were captured, hence a low casualty rate which added to the myth). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]} 13:25, 16 March 2018 (EDT) == Freikorps political leanings question. == Hi. Asking this here since there's no Freikorp article on here. I know the Sturmabteilung overall, as with the Nazis, are closer to far-left than to the far-right, despite what contemporary history would claim (heck, Ernst Rohm actually advocated for permanent revolution akin to what Leon Trotsky advocated). But does anyone know where the Freikorps lie in terms of political leanings (before merging with the SA, I mean)? Were they far-left? Left-of-center? Right-of-center? Far-right? I know they were definitely against Soviet-orchestrated world communism due to [https://howlingpixel.com/i-en/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations,_1918%E2%80%931941 their role in putting down the Soviet-orchestrated communist global revolution shortly after the USSR's formation], but I have absolutely no idea whether they were against communism itself or just the Soviets' use of it (Hitler was also against the Soviets, yet not necessarily against Communism in itself), and by extension whether that actually makes them far-right or just another flavor of the far-left. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 07:09, 2 July 2019 (EDT):Friekorps essentially was a non-political organization. It had always existed, similar to what we would call veterans, militia, or mercenaries. Because the Treaty of Versailles had restricted the size of the German military, the Friekorps grew at this time consisting of de-mobilized unemployed veterans. Professional soldiers. Apolitical. But the times were chaotic, Germany had ceased to be monarchy, and most of Germany's enemies now seemed to be within - either collaborators with the Big Four Powers (France, England, Italy and the U.S.) or communist revolutionaries. :Historically, ''Friekorps'' were loyal to the established monarchical system. When Germany become a Republic, most viewed the Wiemar constitution as a foreign conspiracy. If an unemployed veteran felt strongly about politics, say as a democrat or a communist, there were any number of political parties to join. Those veterans who allied with Hitler's nationalist sentiment, left the Friekorp and joined a Nazi paramilitary organization. Needless to say, the times were very confusing for the ''Friekorps'' leadership, cause there was a power vacuum at the top when the Kaiser abdicated. But the leadership regarded themselves as soldiers, not politicians. :It's kind of a tragic tale, because these professional soldiers of all ranks were forced into retirement, could not find jobs, and hated the dirty business of politics. So while the leadership tried to remain loyal to Germany, it was forced to choose sides among competing factions, often getting entangled in political fights it had no interest in.  :The Wiemar constitution, as most Germans viewed it, was a foreign occupation government. The ''Friekorps'' had no love or loyalty to it. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]} 07:44, 2 July 2019 (EDT) ::Okay, fine by me. I was only confused because [https://howlingpixel.com/i-en/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations,_1918%E2%80%931941 that link I provided earlier] made it sound as though the ''Friekorps'' (at least the ones that squashed the Soviet-funded German Revolution) were a right-wing organization, yet I also knew that just because they were against the Soviets doesn't necessarily mean they were right-wing. Hitler and Rohm most certainly were against the Soviets, yet they were if anything left-wing. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 08:05, 2 July 2019 (EDT):::If anything, you could call them patriots or 'nationalists', but 'nationalist' in the pre-Hitler pre-Trump sense.:::Gordon Craig's ''Politics of the Prussian Army'' would be an excellent source.:::The Second Reich lasted only 44 years (1871-1914), not even one lifetime. So what books in 1919 called "German nationalism" is very different from our understanding today. German "nationalist" identity was forged in that period, modeled on France nationalism of the Napoleanic era (something France always feared). At the time of Napolean, there was no German national identity; at the time of unification, Austria and Switzerland were excluded from German national identity.:::The Friekorp movement existed among several German states for centuries. Even during World War I, however, there was no integration of troops. Hitler, for example, was an Austrian, serving in a Bavarian regiment, under Prussian officer's command. By 1919, there was somewhat of a German national identity among veterans, but there still were separate Bavarian Friekorps, Prussian Friekorps, Hessian Friekorps, East Prussian (Lithuanian) Freikorps, etc. There was no unified, consolidated movement. So even calling them "nationalist' can be questionable. It was Hitler, the Austrian, preaching German nationalism, that called out many from the various units into Nazi paramilitary organizations. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]} 15:22, 2 July 2019 (EDT) :::We see the same tribal phenomenon in Iraq and Afghanistan, and U.S efforts to build an "Iraqi National Army" and "Afghan National Army." The situation there, and in the Second Reich, was like the Union Army of the Civil War were each state sent it's own regiments. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]} 15:30, 2 July 2019 (EDT) :::In an interesting, yet totally unrelated aspect mentioned in the link you provided: Count Mirbach's assassin's first wife was [[Elizabeth Zarubina]], who recruited Robert Oppenheimer to cooperate with Soviet intelligence. Her second husband, [[Vasily Zarubin]] was in charge of all Soviet intelligence in North America during World War II, which included the Rosenbergs, [[Alger Hiss]], [[Harry Dexter White]], and the successful efforts to steal Manhattan Project secrets. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]} 16:12, 2 July 2019 (EDT) :::Freikorp in a sense could be likened to jihadis - veteran jihadis. There is a multitude of local militia jihadis, both Sunni and Shia, all over the Middle East, the Chechen Republic, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Philippines. These veterans are the targets of recruiting by groups like Al Qaeda or the Islamic Republic of Iran with a more global perspective of who the enemy is. They target experienced fighters and provide political/ideological brainwashing beyond their narrow, local, hometown perspectives. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]} 16:30, 2 July 2019 (EDT)