User talk:Alfred123
Welcome!
Hello, Alfred123, and welcome to Conservapedia!
We're glad you are here to edit. We ask that you read our Editor's Guide before you edit.
At the right are some useful links for you. You can include these links on your user page by putting "{{Useful links}}" on the page. Any questions--ask!
Thanks for reading, Alfred123!
- Philip J. Rayment 08:54, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
"I oppose...
Abortion in any Christian society...." Presumably, then, you're okay with the aborting of non-Christian foetuses? AliceBG 10:49, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Hi, I don't care for what people do in their own countries. Eg in Saudi Arabia, that is their business and they can govern their country in a Muslim way.
Alfred123 10:53, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
- So I guess "love your neighbour" doesn't extend to fellow human beings in other countries? Philip J. Rayment 10:57, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
- Phil, as far as this guy is concerned, "love your neighbour" doesn't even extend to the people in your own country if they don't have the same skin colour as you -- see his user page for his advocacy of a white Boer homeland. AliceBG 11:03, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
- What fellowship can light have with darkness, Philip? (I might be paraphrasing a little).GHolland 11:27, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Advocating the rights of a nation of people does not make me a racist.
And I respect the right of non-Christians to do as they please.
If you were to start dictating to non-Christian nations what they should do then it would make the threat of Muslim extremist terrorism even greater. It is best to just leave them to deal with things in their own way.
Alfred123 11:21, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
You say "advocating the rights of a nation of people does not make me a racist". True - except it might if you advocate one group's rights entirely at the expense of another group's rights, especially when the group whose rights you dismiss (black South Africans) are in fact the indigenous people of the area in question.PeteSC 11:31, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Wrong. The Voortrekkers arrived in the Transvaal and Orange Free State first, long before the Bantus came down from their kingdoms to the north.
Only the Zulus were there and the trekkers, after being betrayed by Zulu King Dingaan, negotiated land rights with the Zulus in return for returning some cattle to the Zulu King which was stolen from him by a lesser Chief.
Alfred123 11:36, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
- I might go along with leaving them to their own ends for reasons of practicality, sovereignty, and diplomacy, but not because "I don't care". Philip J. Rayment 11:33, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
PeterSC if you dispute what I say then I'll suggest some reading material for you to go and read, because it is a common myth that Blacks populated the Boer republics before the Boers.
Alfred123 11:37, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I'm not interested in reading materials at the moment, but I'd still be very interested to hear what you suggest.
The Bantu were just one tribal group out of a number. The legal documents of the racist SA government during apartheid used the word as a general term to describe all blacks, a bit like describing all British people as "English". You seem to have adopted their technique. So the Zulu were there first? Thanks for the confirmation, I'm glad we agree on that point. PeteSC 11:49, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Hi. The Zulu were not in what is now known as the Transvaal or Orange Free State (they were empty) they were in the Natal, so my argument holds true that the Boers were there first.
Well calling the South African government racist is highly disputable, they were racialists yes, but not racists.
Alfred123 11:55, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
And Bantu was not a tribal group, it was a word used to signify all Black African tribes from the equator downwards (source- Apartheid:A History by Brian Lapping).
Alfred123 11:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
As for reading materials I recommend:
- The Afrikaners by GHL Le May
- Apartheid: A History by Brian Lapping
- The Boer War by Thomas Pakenham
- The Scramble for Africa by Thomas Pakenham
- The Boer War by Gregory Fremont-Barnes
So how was the apartheid system anything but racist? I'm sure our American friends on this site wouldn't hesitate in condemning the way many African Americans were treated for much of the 20th century as racist, and even that wasn't as extreme as apartheid. Exactly what are you views on the position of black Americans during this period. And, for that matter, what are your views on apartheid??? PeteSC 12:05, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Apartheid, I don't feel I need to clarify my view on that, as you are all clever enough to have deduced where I stand.
As for the mistreatment of Black Americans, it was wrong, but I am not responsible, so I don't feel any guilt for it.
Alfred123 12:10, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I did think that I had deduced where you stood on apartheid, but wanted you to clarify because I thought I had to be mistaken. Evidently not. PeteSC 13:38, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Where did you think I had stood on Apartheid?
Alfred123 13:39, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I'd quite like you to answer my original question before I answer your later question, thanks. But as you seem to want to avoid answering it: I think you stand exactly where you expect me to have "deduced" your position to be. PeteSC 13:43, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I support Apartheid, but not the human rights abuses commited against people under it (eg those tortured by the Security Branch of the police) and the land distribution to the Blacks should have been fairer (not 13% of the land, more like 50%).
Alfred123 13:45, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Can I say...
Allow me to say that I am new here, but I have in the 20 hours I've been here offered a lot of work to Conservapedia and have created two long articles, all of which were supported by references from reliable sources.
Yet a lot of people are launching vitriolic attacks against me, calling me racist and a troll. I didn't think this was the correct way of putting your views across.
I have cited sources for the things I have written in articles and you are all more than welcome to check up on those sources, they are all reliable. So why are a lot of you attacking me for simply re-iterating what another person has said?
Alfred123 11:40, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Sources
Why do very few people on Conservapedia cite their sources? I just made an edit to the Desmond Tutu page and I was the only one to cite a source.
Alfred123 11:59, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
...and then undermined it with POV unsuitable for an encyclopedia. PeteSC 12:07, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
Excuse me? Tutu said was pleased about Whites fighting, yet he claimed to be a man of peace. Contradiction???
Alfred123 12:09, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I notice you are studying law? I'm considering that as a career , I've been reading law books since I was 9, and find it fascinating. Although our current legal system is awash with liberalisms that need to be stamped out by a truly nationalistic government.
I know you may disagree but I think there is a call for tougher sentencing on all crimes.
Alfred123 12:13, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
