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User:PeterKa/Diacritics proposal (view source)

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# The major U.S. style guides, including ''The Chicago Manual of Style'', APA, AMA, and MLA, recommend Merriam-Webster spelling. British style guides recommend Oxford spelling. Both Merriam-Webster and Oxford give Vietnamese names without diacritics, as you can see from the charts below.
 
# The major U.S. style guides, including ''The Chicago Manual of Style'', APA, AMA, and MLA, recommend Merriam-Webster spelling. British style guides recommend Oxford spelling. Both Merriam-Webster and Oxford give Vietnamese names without diacritics, as you can see from the charts below.
−
# Besides the Merriam-Webster dictionaries, other standard library reference works that cover Vietnam also remove the diacritics: ''Britannica'', ''Encyclopedia of the Vietnam War'' (2011), ''Encyclopedia of Modern Asia'' (2002), ''National Geographic Atlas of the World'', and ''Lonely Planet Vietnam''. ''Britannica'' is edited by University of Chicago Press copy editors trained in Chicago style, which is the most widely admired editing style.
+
# Besides the Merriam-Webster dictionaries, other standard library reference works that cover Vietnam also remove the diacritics: ''Britannica'', ''Encyclopedia of the Vietnam War'' (2011), ''Encyclopedia of Modern Asia'' (2002), ''National Geographic Atlas of the World'', and ''Lonely Planet Vietnam''. ''Britannica'' is edited by University of Chicago Press copy editors trained in Chicago style, which is the most widely admired editing style.<ref>''Britannica'' created its current diacritics style for its 1974 edition. Merriam Webster and other publishers followed ''Britannica'''s lead. Pre-1974, the standard style was to use only Western European (Latin-1) diacritics. This is still a common style in non-academic writing.</ref>
 
# Go on Amazon and search for "Vietnam" books. I guarantee that no book that comes up in the top twenty will use Vietnamese diacritics in the running text.
 
# Go on Amazon and search for "Vietnam" books. I guarantee that no book that comes up in the top twenty will use Vietnamese diacritics in the running text.
 
# They're "distracting," according to the [http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/A/accent-marks style guide of National Geographic]. We want readers to focus on the content of the article rather than the style it is written in.
 
# They're "distracting," according to the [http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/A/accent-marks style guide of National Geographic]. We want readers to focus on the content of the article rather than the style it is written in.
   −
------------------------
+
==Wikipedia RFC==
 
'''Should our guidelines on diacritics and spelling be rewritten to reflect the recommendations of major style books?'''
 
'''Should our guidelines on diacritics and spelling be rewritten to reflect the recommendations of major style books?'''
   Line 116: Line 116:  
! Approved
 
! Approved
 
|-
 
|-
−
! style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Istanbul]]'''
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Istanbul]]'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Is•tan•bul'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Is•tan•bul'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''İs•tan•bul'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''İs•tan•bul'''
Line 127: Line 127:  
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''İstanbul'''
 
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''İstanbul'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
! style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Jyväskylä]]'''
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Jyväskylä]]'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Jy•vas•ky•la'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Jy•vas•ky•la'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Jy•väs•ky•lä'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Jy•väs•ky•lä'''
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| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Jyväskylä'''
 
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Jyväskylä'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
! style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Kinmen]]'''
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Kinmen]]'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Que•moy'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Que•moy'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Que•moy'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Que•moy'''
Line 149: Line 149:  
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Jinmen Dao'''
 
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Jinmen Dao'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
! style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Lübeck]]'''
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Lübeck]]'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Lü•beck'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Lü•beck'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Lü•beck'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Lü•beck'''
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| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Lübeck'''
 
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Lübeck'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
! style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Ploiești]]'''
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Ploiești]]'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Plo•iesti''' ''or'' '''Plo•esti'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Plo•iesti''' ''or'' '''Plo•esti'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Plo•ieş•ti''' ''or'' '''Plo•eş•ti'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Plo•ieş•ti''' ''or'' '''Plo•eş•ti'''
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| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Ploiești'''
 
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Ploiești'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
! style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Zürich]]'''
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''[[Zürich]]'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Zu•rich'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Zu•rich'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Zü•rich'''
 
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|'''Zü•rich'''
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| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Zürich'''
 
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|'''Zürich'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
|}
  −
  −
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 90%;"
   
! colspan="10"| Vietnamese cities
 
! colspan="10"| Vietnamese cities
 
|-
 
|-
−
! Wikipedia
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Ho Chi Minh City
−
! [[Encyclopædia Britannica|Britannica]]
+
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ho%20chi%20minh%20city Ho Chi Minh City]
−
! Columbia
+
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|Ho Chi Minh City
−
! [[Encarta]]
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|[http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Ho+Chi+Minh+City&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 '''Ho Chi Minh City''' <small>Formerly</small> '''Saigon''']
−
! American Heritage
+
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ho+Chi+Minh+City?s=t Ho Chi Minh City]
−
! Collins
+
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Ho%2BChi%2BMinh%2BCity?q=Ho+Chi+Minh+City Ho Chi Minh City]
−
! Oxford
  −
! Random House
  −
! Merriam-Webster
  −
![http://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz/ U.S. Board on Geographic Names]
  −
|-
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Ho Chi Minh City
   
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/268316/Ho-Chi-Minh-City Ho Chi Minh City]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/268316/Ho-Chi-Minh-City Ho Chi Minh City]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/ho-chi-minh-city.html Ho Chi Minh City]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/ho-chi-minh-city.html Ho Chi Minh City]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://web.archive.org/web/20090504042931/http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761566624/Ho_Chi_Minh_City.html Ho Chi Minh City]
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Ho Chi Minh City
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Ho+Chi+Minh+City&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 '''Ho Chi Minh City''' <small>Formerly</small> '''Saigon''']
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Thành Phố Hồ Chí Minh
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ho+Chi+Minh+City?s=t Ho Chi Minh City]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Ho%2BChi%2BMinh%2BCity?q=Ho+Chi+Minh+City Ho Chi Minh City]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ho+Chi+Minh+City?s=t Ho Chi Minh City]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ho%20chi%20minh%20city Ho Chi Minh City]
  −
|style="background:#dfffdf;"|Ho Chi Minh City (conventional)<br>Thành Phố Hồ Chí Minh (approved)
   
|-
 
|-
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Hanoi
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"| Hanoi
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hanoi Hanoi]
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"| Hanoi
 +
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hanoi&submit.x=45&submit.y=33 Hanoi]
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Hanoi?q=Hanoi Hanoi]
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hanoi?s=t Hanoi]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/254479/Hanoi Hanoi]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/254479/Hanoi Hanoi]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/hanoi.html Hanoi]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/hanoi.html Hanoi]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://web.archive.org/web/20090407083350/http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761557326/Hanoi.html Hanoi]
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"| N/A
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hanoi&submit.x=45&submit.y=33 Hanoi]
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"| Hà Nội  
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hanoi?s=t Hanoi]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Hanoi?q=Hanoi Hanoi]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hanoi?s=t Hanoi]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hanoi Hanoi]
  −
|style="background:#dfffdf;"| Hà Nội  
   
|-
 
|-
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Haiphong  
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Haiphong
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/haiphong Haiphong]
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|Haiphong
 +
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hai+Phong&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 Haiphong]
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Haiphong?q=Haiphong Haiphong]
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Haiphong?s=t Haiphong]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/251860/Haiphong Haiphong]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/251860/Haiphong Haiphong]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/haiphong.html Haiphong]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/haiphong.html Haiphong]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://web.archive.org/web/20090608122009/http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861676030/Haiphong.html Haiphong]
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|N/A
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hai+Phong&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 Haiphong]
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Hải Phòng
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Chi%C5%9Fin%C7%8Eu Haiphong]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Haiphong?q=Haiphong Haiphong]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Haiphong?s=t Haiphong]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/haiphong Haiphong]
  −
|style="background:#dfffdf;"|Hải Phòng
   
|-
 
|-
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Cần Thơ
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Cần Thơ
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|Can Tho
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://books.google.com.vn/books?hl=vi&id=Co_VIPIJerIC&q=Can+Tha#v=snippet&q=Can%20Tha&f=false Can Tho]
 +
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Can Tho
 +
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/91485/Can-Tho Can Tho]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/91485/Can-Tho Can Tho]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/can-tho.html Can Tho]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/can-tho.html Can Tho]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Can Tho
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|N/A
−
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Cần Thơ
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/can-tho?showCookiePolicy=true Can Tho]
  −
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Can+Tho?s=t Can-Tho]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://books.google.com.vn/books?hl=vi&id=Co_VIPIJerIC&q=Can+Tha#v=snippet&q=Can%20Tha&f=false Can Tho]
  −
|style="background:#dfffdf;"|Cần Thơ
   
|-
 
|-
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Da Nang
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Da Nang
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/da%20nang Da Nang]
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|Da Nang
 +
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|[http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Da+Nang&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 '''Da Nang'''<small> or </small>'''Da·nang''']
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Da-Nang?q=Da+Nang Da Nang]
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Da+Nang?s=t Da Nang]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/149343/Da-Nang Da Nang]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/149343/Da-Nang Da Nang]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|
 
[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/da-nang.html Da Nang]
 
[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/da-nang.html Da Nang]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://web.archive.org/web/20090412060333/http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761563619/Da_Nang.html Da Nang]
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|N/A
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Da+Nang&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 '''Da Nang'''<small> or </small>'''Da·nang''']
+
|style="background:#FFFFA0;"| Đa Năng  
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Da+Nang?s=t Da Nang]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Da-Nang?q=Da+Nang Da Nang]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Da+Nang?s=t Da Nang]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/da%20nang Da Nang]
  −
|style="background:#dfffdf;"| Đa Năng  
   
|-
 
|-
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Biên Hòa
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Biên Hòa
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|Bien Hoa
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://books.google.com.vn/books?hl=vi&id=Co_VIPIJerIC&q=Bien+Hoa#v=snippet&q=Bien%20Hoa&f=false '''Bien Hoa'''<small> also </small>'''Bien-hoa''']
 +
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Bien Hoa
 +
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|
 +
[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Bien-Hoa?q=Bien+Hoa Bien Hoa]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/64822/Bien-Hoa Bien Hoa]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/64822/Bien-Hoa Bien Hoa]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/bien-hoa.html Bien Hoa]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/bien-hoa.html Bien Hoa]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Bien Hoa
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|N/A
−
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Biên Hòa  
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"| [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/bien-hoa?showCookiePolicy=true Bien Hoa]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|
  −
[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Bien-Hoa?q=Bien+Hoa Bien Hoa]
  −
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|
  −
| style="background:#ffddf4;"|[http://books.google.com.vn/books?hl=vi&id=Co_VIPIJerIC&q=Bien+Hoa#v=snippet&q=Bien%20Hoa&f=false '''Bien Hoa'''<small> also </small>'''Bien-hoa''']
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Biên Hòa  
   
|-
 
|-
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Huế
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Huế
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hue Hue]
 +
| style="background:#E0FFFF;"|Hue
 +
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hue&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 Hue]
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Hue (city)
 +
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Hué Hué]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/274758/Hue Hue]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/274758/Hue Hue]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/hue.html Hue]
 
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/hue.html Hue]
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Hue (city)
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|N/A
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"| [http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hue&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 Hue]
+
| style="background:#FFFFA0;"|Huế
−
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/hue?showCookiePolicy=true Hué]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Hué Hué]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hue?s=t Hué]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hue Hue]
  −
| style="background:#dfffdf;"|Huế
   
|}
 
|}
   Line 290: Line 276:  
*“For the spelling of names of places, consult ''Merriam-Webster’s Geographic Dictionary.''” CMOS, p. 403.
 
*“For the spelling of names of places, consult ''Merriam-Webster’s Geographic Dictionary.''” CMOS, p. 403.
 
</small>
 
</small>
 +
==References==
 +
<references/>
PeterKa
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