Changes

===American Atheists===

===American Atheists===

{{further|American Atheists - Excerpts from their website}}

{{further|American Atheists - Excerpts from their website}}

In December 2013, Chris Stedman of the Religion News Service, reported that "Dave Muscato, the Public Relations Director for [[American Atheists]], made a problematic and offensive comment about [[LGBTQ]] ([[lesbian]], [[gay]], [[bisexual]], and [[transgender]]) activists."<ref name=Stedman>{{cite web|url=http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2013/12/13/american-atheists-public-relations-director/|title=Does American Atheists agree with this offensive LGBTQ comment?|last=Stedman|first=Chris|date=13 December 2013|publisher=Religion News Service|accessdate=25 April 2014}}</ref> Muscato, who works closely with [[David Silverman]] (often referred to by his nickname "[[Sinful Silverman]]"), stated that:

In December 2013, Chris Stedman of the Religion News Service, complained that "Dave Muscato, the Public Relations Director for [[American Atheists]], made a problematic and offensive comment about [[LGBTQ]] ([[lesbian]], [[gay]], [[bisexual]], and [[transgender]]) activists."<ref name=Stedman>{{cite web|url=http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2013/12/13/american-atheists-public-relations-director/|title=Does American Atheists agree with this offensive LGBTQ comment?|last=Stedman|first=Chris|date=13 December 2013|publisher=Religion News Service|accessdate=25 April 2014}}</ref> Muscato, who works closely with [[David Silverman]] (often referred to by his nickname "[[Sinful Silverman]]"), stated that:

{{quotation|There are different types of atheist activists and we are not the kind that you seem to wish that we were or want us to be. I talk about this in a talk I give about atheism activism, where I say that, as an example, there are (generalizing) two types of LGBTQ activists: the kind that wear suits & ties and run for office and give speeches, and the kind who dress up in chaps and ride on parade floats. The suit-and-tie atheists say to the assless-chaps activists, “Stop doing that. You’re making us look bad. We’re trying to accomplish something here in terms of public acceptance.” But that is not the right way to look at it, I think. The assless-chaps activists say, “This is who we are and this is what we believe. If the public won’t accept that, they need to change, not me.”<ref>{{cite web|url=http://columbiafavs.com/2013/12/13/aiming-higher-billboards-problems-atheist-advertising/#comment-170803|title=Aiming higher than billboards: Problems in atheist advertising|last=Lakey|first=Tony|date=13 December 2013|quote=Hi Tony! Thanks for your article. I just want to point out a correction: - The Times Square board, too, did not cost our organization anything. I also want you to know that, as the “marines” of the atheist movement, it is our position that nobody needs Christ during Christmas because, not to put too fine a point on it, but Jesus is dead. Many people *believe* they need Christ during Christmas but that’s exactly our point. Some Christians, especially Bill O’Reilly and Sarah Palin, are trying to say that the entire winter season belongs to Christianity, starting the day after Thanksgiving and ending on December 26th. There is no reason that other Americans can’t celebrate this time of year also, considering that this time has of year has been celebrated for thousands of years before Christianity came along and appropriated it. While part of our mission is mutual sympathy, understanding, and interdependence of all people, that doesn’t mean pussyfooting around what we think. Part of our mission is also “to develop and propagate a social philosophy in which humankind is central and must itself be the source of strength, progress, and ideals for the well-being and happiness of humanity.” Telling people that it’s okay to believe nonsense, like they NEED a fictional zombie in order to enjoy a holiday (which is obviously false considering many people who don’t even believe in that enjoy it, too), does not fit with our aims and purposes. The reason for the season, for EVERYONE, is axial tilt. That is the bottom line. Americans celebrate this in all sorts of ways: Some make up religions about it, some celebrate it entirely secularly, but to say that the reason for the season is Jesus for some people is false and that’s exactly what we’re saying: The reason for calling the holiday Christmas may be Jesus for Christians, but the season belongs to everyone. Part of our mission is raising the public profile & awareness about atheism. That is, we want people to know that there are lots of atheists out there, that atheism is a subject that Americans care about and donate to support, etc. We are certainly open to suggestions if you have ideas about other ways to do this besides billboards. But we do them for the same reason that any organization (including the orgs that have billboards with messages more similar to the kind you’re talking about) put up billboards: They work. I’m not sure that I understand why you seem to be simultaneously saying billboards are a waste of money and, also, here is a suggestion for how you should word your billboards if you want to say a different message. As an aside, you can fit 5, *maybe* 7 words on a billboard. Your suggest is about 4-5 times longer than that. I know you didn’t mean your suggestion as a final-draft wording but it’s just something to keep in mind for future criticisms :) We do have members who are believers but that is not our audience and while we won’t turn away donations from people who agree with our aims and principles, our target market for membership promotion is not believers. It is atheists, especially closeted atheists (afraid to come out) or people who don’t believe but go through the motions because they are not yet convinced that there is an activism need for them to be more vocal about it (reaching that critical mass of people willing to publicly call themselves “atheist” in order to reach a level of public acceptance of the term). I just want to be clear here because Tony and I know each other and he’s already aware that I don’t mean this in a bad way or anything, but there are different types of atheist activists and we are not the kind that you seem to wish that we were or want us to be. I talk about this in a talk I give about atheism activism, where I say that, as an example, there are (generalizing) two types of LGBTQ activists: the kind that wear suits & ties and run for office and give speeches, and the kind who dress up in chaps and ride on parade floats. The suit-and-tie atheists say to the assless-chaps activists, “Stop doing that. You’re making us look bad. We’re trying to accomplish something here in terms of public acceptance.” But that is not the right way to look at it, I think. The assless-chaps activists say, “This is who we are and this is what we believe. If the public won’t accept that, they need to change, not me.” I hope this helps :) Keep up the writing, Tony! - Dave Muscato, PR Director, American Atheists (908) 276-7300 x7 dmuscato@atheists.org|publisher=Columbia|accessdate=25 April 2014}}</ref>}}

{{quotation|There are different types of atheist activists and we are not the kind that you seem to wish that we were or want us to be. I talk about this in a talk I give about atheism activism, where I say that, as an example, there are (generalizing) two types of LGBTQ activists: the kind that wear suits & ties and run for office and give speeches, and the kind who dress up in chaps and ride on parade floats. The suit-and-tie atheists say to the assless-chaps activists, “Stop doing that. You’re making us look bad. We’re trying to accomplish something here in terms of public acceptance.” But that is not the right way to look at it, I think. The assless-chaps activists say, “This is who we are and this is what we believe. If the public won’t accept that, they need to change, not me.”<ref>{{cite web|url=http://columbiafavs.com/2013/12/13/aiming-higher-billboards-problems-atheist-advertising/#comment-170803|title=Aiming higher than billboards: Problems in atheist advertising|last=Lakey|first=Tony|date=13 December 2013|quote=Hi Tony! Thanks for your article. I just want to point out a correction: - The Times Square board, too, did not cost our organization anything. I also want you to know that, as the “marines” of the atheist movement, it is our position that nobody needs Christ during Christmas because, not to put too fine a point on it, but Jesus is dead. Many people *believe* they need Christ during Christmas but that’s exactly our point. Some Christians, especially Bill O’Reilly and Sarah Palin, are trying to say that the entire winter season belongs to Christianity, starting the day after Thanksgiving and ending on December 26th. There is no reason that other Americans can’t celebrate this time of year also, considering that this time has of year has been celebrated for thousands of years before Christianity came along and appropriated it. While part of our mission is mutual sympathy, understanding, and interdependence of all people, that doesn’t mean pussyfooting around what we think. Part of our mission is also “to develop and propagate a social philosophy in which humankind is central and must itself be the source of strength, progress, and ideals for the well-being and happiness of humanity.” Telling people that it’s okay to believe nonsense, like they NEED a fictional zombie in order to enjoy a holiday (which is obviously false considering many people who don’t even believe in that enjoy it, too), does not fit with our aims and purposes. The reason for the season, for EVERYONE, is axial tilt. That is the bottom line. Americans celebrate this in all sorts of ways: Some make up religions about it, some celebrate it entirely secularly, but to say that the reason for the season is Jesus for some people is false and that’s exactly what we’re saying: The reason for calling the holiday Christmas may be Jesus for Christians, but the season belongs to everyone. Part of our mission is raising the public profile & awareness about atheism. That is, we want people to know that there are lots of atheists out there, that atheism is a subject that Americans care about and donate to support, etc. We are certainly open to suggestions if you have ideas about other ways to do this besides billboards. But we do them for the same reason that any organization (including the orgs that have billboards with messages more similar to the kind you’re talking about) put up billboards: They work. I’m not sure that I understand why you seem to be simultaneously saying billboards are a waste of money and, also, here is a suggestion for how you should word your billboards if you want to say a different message. As an aside, you can fit 5, *maybe* 7 words on a billboard. Your suggest is about 4-5 times longer than that. I know you didn’t mean your suggestion as a final-draft wording but it’s just something to keep in mind for future criticisms :) We do have members who are believers but that is not our audience and while we won’t turn away donations from people who agree with our aims and principles, our target market for membership promotion is not believers. It is atheists, especially closeted atheists (afraid to come out) or people who don’t believe but go through the motions because they are not yet convinced that there is an activism need for them to be more vocal about it (reaching that critical mass of people willing to publicly call themselves “atheist” in order to reach a level of public acceptance of the term). I just want to be clear here because Tony and I know each other and he’s already aware that I don’t mean this in a bad way or anything, but there are different types of atheist activists and we are not the kind that you seem to wish that we were or want us to be. I talk about this in a talk I give about atheism activism, where I say that, as an example, there are (generalizing) two types of LGBTQ activists: the kind that wear suits & ties and run for office and give speeches, and the kind who dress up in chaps and ride on parade floats. The suit-and-tie atheists say to the assless-chaps activists, “Stop doing that. You’re making us look bad. We’re trying to accomplish something here in terms of public acceptance.” But that is not the right way to look at it, I think. The assless-chaps activists say, “This is who we are and this is what we believe. If the public won’t accept that, they need to change, not me.” I hope this helps :) Keep up the writing, Tony! - Dave Muscato, PR Director, American Atheists (908) 276-7300 x7 dmuscato@atheists.org|publisher=Columbia|accessdate=25 April 2014}}</ref>}}