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For his part Callicratidas forwards an polemic that is used today by homosexual apologists, that homosexuality was not seen in early times, "for intercourse with women was necessary so that our race might not utterly perish for lack of seed", (35) and postulates that doing away with martial relations would be a good thing, if children could be hand another way, lamenting the efforts women must go through to make themselves attractive.  Yet he sees the efforts that a child must go through as making him an attractive object of homosexual affection for all men. (38-46)  

For his part Callicratidas forwards an polemic that is used today by homosexual apologists, that homosexuality was not seen in early times, "for intercourse with women was necessary so that our race might not utterly perish for lack of seed", (35) and postulates that doing away with martial relations would be a good thing, if children could be hand another way, lamenting the efforts women must go through to make themselves attractive.  Yet he sees the efforts that a child must go through as making him an attractive object of homosexual affection for all men. (38-46)  

The famous philosopher [[Plato]] (427 B.C. - 346 B.C.) around 348 B.C. describes and implies the widespread practice of homosexuality, and advocates laws to regulate it.<ref>Laws 636a-c; 835-c; 836a-e; 838b-839b; 840de; 841de</ref> One of the most explicit records of disapproval of homosexuality is found in Laws 636c, in which Plato, speaking through the character of the Athenian stranger, describes homosexual relations as an "enormity" or "crime" (tolmema), and explains that it derives from being enslaved to pleasure. He plainly rejects homosexual behavior as "unnatural" (para physin), as “When male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female”.<ref>[http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/romans_malick.pdf David E. Malick, "The Condemnation of Homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27"]</ref><ref>[http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9406/opinion/opinion.html First Things, Peter L. Berger, Leadership U.]</ref>  Homosexuality is also described regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments: ''Homosexuality is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce.''<ref>Quoted by John Boswell in "The Church and the Homosexual: An Historical Perspective" (1979).</ref><

The famous philosopher [[Plato]] (427 B.C. - 346 B.C.) around 348 B.C. describes and implies the widespread practice of homosexuality, and advocates laws to regulate it.<ref>Laws 636a-c; 835-c; 836a-e; 838b-839b; 840de; 841de</ref> One of the most explicit records of disapproval of homosexuality is found in Laws 636c, in which Plato, speaking through the character of the Athenian stranger, describes homosexual relations as an "enormity" or "crime" (tolmema), and explains that it derives from being enslaved to pleasure. He plainly rejects homosexual behavior as "unnatural" (para physin), as “When male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female”.<ref>[http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/romans_malick.pdf David E. Malick, "The Condemnation of Homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27"]</ref><ref>[http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9406/opinion/opinion.html First Things, Peter L. Berger, Leadership U.]</ref>  Homosexuality is also described regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments: ''Homosexuality is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce.''<ref>Quoted by John Boswell in "The Church and the Homosexual: An Historical Perspective" (1979).</ref>

In Plutarch's ''Dialogue on Love'',<ref>Dialogue on Love 751C, E</ref> he has Daphnaeus disparage "union contrary to nature with males" (he para physin homilia pros arrenas), as contrasted to "the love between men and women," which is characterized as "natural" (te physei). A few sentences later, Daphnaeus complains that those who "consort with males" willingly are guilty of "weakness and effeminacy," because "contrary to nature (para physin)," they "allow themselves in Plato's words 'to be covered and mounted like cattle'" (Dialogue on Love 751C, E). However, he also wrote that "The noble lover of beauty engages in love wherever he sees excellence and splendid natural endowment without regard for any difference in physiological detail",<ref>Plutarch, Dialogue on Love, 146.</ref> and which many use to endorse homosexuality.

In Plutarch's ''Dialogue on Love'',<ref>Dialogue on Love 751C, E</ref> he has Daphnaeus disparage "union contrary to nature with males" (he para physin homilia pros arrenas), as contrasted to "the love between men and women," which is characterized as "natural" (te physei). A few sentences later, Daphnaeus complains that those who "consort with males" willingly are guilty of "weakness and effeminacy," because "contrary to nature (para physin)," they "allow themselves in Plato's words 'to be covered and mounted like cattle'" (Dialogue on Love 751C, E). However, he also wrote that "The noble lover of beauty engages in love wherever he sees excellence and splendid natural endowment without regard for any difference in physiological detail",<ref>Plutarch, Dialogue on Love, 146.</ref> and which many use to endorse homosexuality.