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Talk:Counterexamples to Evolution (view source)
Revision as of 16:19, September 23, 2016
, 16:19, September 23, 2016Replied to comment
:As you said, the 2nd Law does not apply to an open system; for such a statement to be correct, then the 2nd Law cannot function at all anywhere there is an open system. If the earth is an open system as you said above, ''then the 2nd Law should not exist''; you would never, ever, see entropy of any kind. Unfortunately, such a belief flies in the face of direct observation, which happens to be the first step of the Scientific Method.
:As you said, the 2nd Law does not apply to an open system; for such a statement to be correct, then the 2nd Law cannot function at all anywhere there is an open system. If the earth is an open system as you said above, ''then the 2nd Law should not exist''; you would never, ever, see entropy of any kind. Unfortunately, such a belief flies in the face of direct observation, which happens to be the first step of the Scientific Method.
:That is the point of the argument you are missing when it comes to evolution. This open/closed system argument was made when it was discovered that entropy exists in life; we are born, we age, we wither away, we die, and our bodies turn back into dust. That is entropy. The heart of evolution states that as species evolve they get better and better, and that is the opposite of what is actually observed. So, for this strikeout to happen on the article page, I require absolute proof that the 2nd Law cannot function anywhere for any reason in an open system. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] ([[User talk:Karajou|talk]]) 09:58, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:That is the point of the argument you are missing when it comes to evolution. This open/closed system argument was made when it was discovered that entropy exists in life; we are born, we age, we wither away, we die, and our bodies turn back into dust. That is entropy. The heart of evolution states that as species evolve they get better and better, and that is the opposite of what is actually observed. So, for this strikeout to happen on the article page, I require absolute proof that the 2nd Law cannot function anywhere for any reason in an open system. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] ([[User talk:Karajou|talk]]) 09:58, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
I have a problem with this part of your argument:
"As you said, the 2nd Law does not apply to an open system; for such a statement to be correct, then the 2nd Law cannot function at all anywhere there is an open system. If the earth is an open system as you said above, then the 2nd Law should not exist; you would never, ever, see entropy of any kind."
I assume where you say "see entropy of" is just a typo and you mean "see entropy increase of". My understanding of your reasoning is as follows:
let us assume the second law (entropy of a system does not decrease) does not apply to an open system.
implies
second law (entropy of a system does not decrease) is '''false''' for an open system.
hence
entropy of an open system must not (not decrease) = entropy of an open system must not increase
The implies statement is incorrect. A law not applying to a system is '''not''' the same as the law being '''false''' for that system. If a law does not apply, we cannot say anything.
The second law says "the entropy in a closed system does not decrease". It does not specify what happens in an open system. For example, suppose that if I don't win the lottery tomorrow, I shall buy some milk. It would be wrong to conclude that if I do win, I will '''not''' buy any milk. Hence it is wrong to conclude that entropy cannot increase in an open system.
I am not denying that entropy can increase in an open system, just that it can easily '''decrease'''. My example above shows an open system in which I have shown using '''mathematics''' that entropy decreases, hence we cannot gerenalise the second law to include open systems as well. Why does that not constitute a proof? [[User:Richardm|Richardm]] ([[User talk:Richardm|talk]]) 12:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
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