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| | It hardly matters much, as WHA's place in history is secure. The claim or slogan or whatever it is that is on the plaque, however, says simply "The Oldest Station in the Nation." Broadcasting is implied, but not stated, so we shouldn't state it, either. I'm not sure who questions it or why but I'd guess it turns on the question of exactly what a broadcast is and so forth. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 14:47, 26 April 2007 (EDT) Ah. Found it. The rival is Pittsburgh's KDKA. I should have thought of that. Details [http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2007/02/28/0702280463.php here]. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 15:07, 26 April 2007 (EDT) | | It hardly matters much, as WHA's place in history is secure. The claim or slogan or whatever it is that is on the plaque, however, says simply "The Oldest Station in the Nation." Broadcasting is implied, but not stated, so we shouldn't state it, either. I'm not sure who questions it or why but I'd guess it turns on the question of exactly what a broadcast is and so forth. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 14:47, 26 April 2007 (EDT) Ah. Found it. The rival is Pittsburgh's KDKA. I should have thought of that. Details [http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2007/02/28/0702280463.php here]. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 15:07, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | == From Aschlafly's talk page == |
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| | + | I didn't delete facts; I did tone them down, in part because I'm baffled as to what the significance is supposed to be. The University of Wisconsin is a lily-white university in a lily-white state. I summarized the situation by saying "It has a relatively low representation of minorities in its enrollment—11.5%—compared to 12.7% for the state of Wisconsin." |
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| | + | : Universities draw on many out-of-state students. I don't think comparing a school's minority enrollment to the number of minorities in the state is all that meaningful. Who cares what Darmouth's minority enrollment is compared to New Hampshire's minority population???--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:51, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | ::It's a meaningful comparison for a public state university, because these universitites do draw heavily on students from within their own states, particularly when there is a big difference between instate and out-of-state tuition as there is at Wisconsin ($4,423 instate, Out-of-State: $18,423[http://www.studentsreview.com/WI/UWMa_i.html] Out-of-state enrollment at University of WIsconsin is capped at 25%, although that does not include students from Minnesota with which Wisconsin has a reciprocal tuition agreement, or foreign students.[http://www.illinimedia.com/di/nov01/nov15/news/stories/news_story01.shtml]. |
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| | + | The importance you give to this in making it the second sentence in the article suggests that you think the minority composition has some great significance. I don't see it. If it were way low compared with that of Wisconsin as a whole, it would suggest discrimination; if it were way high it would suggest an overemphasis on preferential admission. As it is, it's about the same... so what is that supposed to mean, politically or otherwise? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:51, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | : It's a very, very liberal school. It's extremely low minority enrollment (less than half the national average?) is astounding, factual, and arguably hypocritical. |
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| | + | ::It's politically liberal, certainly, although I think "populist" or "Progressive" might be better words. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 10:13, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | P. S. My sentence is still in the article; I see you amended it to "It has a relatively low representation of minorities in its enrollment—11.5%—compared to over 20% nationwide and 12.7% for the state of Wisconsin" which is appropriate. But why does this topic need to appear twice? And why does it need to be in the lead paragraph? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:55, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | : Facts should be up front. We don't need to mention it again twice. But we shouldn't have glowing, unfactual material in the front and bury the useful info later.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:51, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | ::What would you think of the summary sentence, "It has a relatively low representation of minorities in its enrollment—11.5%—compared to over 20% nationwide and 12.7% for the state of Wisconsin" in the second paragraph, with the detailed composition in a footnote? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 09:53, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | ::: The overall stats are misleading because they lump Asians with African Americans, and conceals how the University of Wisconsin has less than 25% the number of African Americans in the population. That statistic is shocking, really, for an institution that is so liberal. Readers should see that up-front. This is a lily white school telling the rest of the country to be liberal.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:08, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | :::: If Wisconsin is discriminating against or otherwise discouraging (or failing to encourage) African-Americans in admissions, I'd expect there to be plenty of ink about that. Fusses, lawsuits, news stories, etc. I don't know that there aren't; I haven't looked. I'd be much happier with a sentence saying "thus-and-such person or organization has castigated the University of Wisconsin for its failure to etc. etc." than with statistics that I'm not sure how to interpret. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 10:18, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | ::: The lack of African Americans at the school is a fact, and a surprising one given the school's demands of political correctness on everyone else. I don't know if liberals criticize this school, their big ally. Shalala ran the place once, and she's as liberal as possible. Regardless, this fact is enlightening, more so than other statements about the school, and complies with our [[rules]]. Let the reader decide.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:29, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | P. P. S. Most likely the University of WIsconsin Law School's [http://law.wisc.edu/ils/ Institute of Legal Studies] has something or other to do with "critical legal studies," David Trubek being "a founder of the Conference on Critical Legal Studies" and "founding Director of the UW-Law School’s Institute for Legal Studies." [http://law.wisc.edu/facstaff/trubek/]. Eventually I'll put something about this in the article if you don't beat me to it. The connection with the Critical Legal Studies movement looks pretty sound. I'm not so sure about it having a closer connection with "political correctness" than any of many other universities. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 06:13, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | : It's widely accepted that Wisconsin founded political correctness. I inserted a reference from a neutral source that confirms that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:51, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | ::Noted. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 09:53, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| | + | What began as a reply to your question about why I was "deleting facts" has become a discussion that more properly belongs at [[Talk:University of Wisconsin-Madison]]. I have a further comment on comparative diversity of colleges which I'm going to make there... and if you have no objection, I'm going to cut this section out of your Talk page and paste it into [[Talk:University of Wisconsin-Madison]]. Is that OK? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 12:45, 26 April 2007 (EDT) |