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Line 426: − :You havea copy of the Bible in God's handwriting? Or you beleive that every step from initial writing, through every translation throughout time has been divinely guided to lay out His message clearly? So, which translation is the divinely guided one? And if He were so inclined to so specifically direct the writing ans subsequent translation of a book, might he not have made it a bit clearer which translation is correct, and which parts of the Bible can be taken literally and which are metaphors? You claim to know the difference... I've never seen that footnote anywhere in the Bible. [[User:QNA|QNA]] 11:39, 26 April 2007 (EDT) + Line 433:
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Debate:Is religion morally wrong? (view source)
Revision as of 04:57, April 27, 2007
, 04:57, April 27, 2007→Is Atheism Ridiculous?: On the Bible
God is very clever indeed. [[User:Everwill|Everwill]] 11:37, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
God is very clever indeed. [[User:Everwill|Everwill]] 11:37, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
:You havea copy of the Bible in God's handwriting? Or you beleive that every step from initial writing, through every translation throughout time has been divinely guided to lay out His message clearly? So, which translation is the divinely guided one? And if He were so inclined to so specifically direct the writing ans subsequent translation of a book, might he not have made it a bit clearer which translation is correct, and which parts of the Bible can be taken literally and which are metaphors? You claim to know the difference... I've never seen that footnote anywhere in the Bible. [[User:QNA|QNA]] 11:39, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
::The copies and translations of the Bible are very accurate, and accurate enough to know what God was saying. And the phrase "every translation through time" is quite misleading, as mot current English Bibles have been translated directly from the original languages, i.e. a one-step translation. It couldn't get much better than that. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 11:56, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
::The copies and translations of the Bible are very accurate, and accurate enough to know what God was saying. And the phrase "every translation through time" is quite misleading, as mot current English Bibles have been translated directly from the original languages, i.e. a one-step translation. It couldn't get much better than that. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 11:56, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
: Standard non-answer... How do you know they are accurate, which version? The differences are quite spectacular at times. Not to mention that even if one accepts your "one-step translation" proposition we are talking (in the case of Genesis) about an account put down long after the event itself (even by your time scale), and then translated from languages with enough nuances to allow for all these different translations that arise today... Not to mention that the "accurate enough to know what God was saying" ignores the reality that if people debate it to the degree we do today, it sure doesn't seem so crystal clear... I say the the story of Genesis clearly reads like a parable or metaphor... you believe it is clearly meant to be taken literally, though you allow that some portions of the Bible are not literal... I was asking for the magic footnote that tells us which is which? [[User:QNA|QNA]] 12:18, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
: Standard non-answer... How do you know they are accurate, which version? The differences are quite spectacular at times. Not to mention that even if one accepts your "one-step translation" proposition we are talking (in the case of Genesis) about an account put down long after the event itself (even by your time scale), and then translated from languages with enough nuances to allow for all these different translations that arise today... Not to mention that the "accurate enough to know what God was saying" ignores the reality that if people debate it to the degree we do today, it sure doesn't seem so crystal clear... I say the the story of Genesis clearly reads like a parable or metaphor... you believe it is clearly meant to be taken literally, though you allow that some portions of the Bible are not literal... I was asking for the magic footnote that tells us which is which? [[User:QNA|QNA]] 12:18, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
::That was not a non-answer; it made valid points. The differences are not that spectacular. Why don't you accept the "one-step translation"? Look in almost any modern version and it will tell you that it was translated from the original languages. I tend to subscribe to the belief that Genesis was originally written in sections by the people that witnessed the events (e.g. Adam himself) and Moses compiled those handed-down written histories into the book of Genesis.
::People debate the Bible to the degree that they do because some people will do anything to avoid the implications of what it is teaching, including calling black white (actually, calling six days billions of years). But that doesn't mean that the text is ambiguous, just that some people will not take it at face value.
::Parable and metaphor have particular linguistic characteristics, and Genesis doesn't have those characteristics, so it is not parable nor metaphor (on the whole; some bits may be). You determine which is which by the language, just as you do in everyday life. If I said that "it's raining cats and dogs", would you wonder if I was being literal or not?
::[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:57, 27 April 2007 (EDT)
==Questions and Answers==
==Questions and Answers==
Plato showed how in a debate one asks questions so that the debaters can pursue the truth together rather than being adversaries. So what I can't understand is why would you do anything ever which does not serve your immediate self-interests? Would you feel guilty about murdering a child to get what you wanted, if no one would punish you? Is "good" just an animal instinct that we humans share? Or do you have a spirit which can discern right from wrong?
Plato showed how in a debate one asks questions so that the debaters can pursue the truth together rather than being adversaries. So what I can't understand is why would you do anything ever which does not serve your immediate self-interests? Would you feel guilty about murdering a child to get what you wanted, if no one would punish you? Is "good" just an animal instinct that we humans share? Or do you have a spirit which can discern right from wrong?