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::Since 2003, Erdogan has slowly transformed Turkey from the secular paradise that Flynn talks about, into a totalitarian, neo-Islamist dictatorship, where it's not uncommon to hear about violent, government-sponsored attacks on the Kurdish minority and on opposition outlets. In addition, Erdogan has drastically changed Turkey's foreign policy. Before he came to power, Turkey was a reliable American ally that pursued a largely isolationist (with a few exceptions, such as with Cyprus and Armenia) foreign policy outside of NATO affairs. Today, Erdogan's Turkey is a reliable supporter of global jihadist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS. Erdogan's Turkey is becoming increasingly militaristic, regularly threatening to invade Syria and Iraq in order to "protect" ethnic "Turkmen" (in spite of Russian and Iranian attempts to appease Erdogan by allowing him to participate in the Syrian peace process). Notice I say "Turkmen" because these people are not Turkish. Erdogan is a pan-Turkic nationalist as well as an Islamist, and wants to unite the Caucasus and Central Asia under his leadership. This policy includes forging alliances with Turkish ultranationalist groups such as the Grey Wolves (which has been linked to many terrorist plots -- including the 1981 failed assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II -- and today try to incite ethnic violence in European countries with large ethnic Turkish populations). Erdogan's Turkey is vehemently anti-Israel, having given aid to Hamas and even publicly threatened to attack Israel on at least one occasion. Erdogan has also blamed the Jews for domestic opposition to his policies, as well as for the 2013 military coup in Egypt. Erdogan's Turkey is vehemently anti-Catholic, having declared on more than one occasion that the European Union is part of a Vatican conspiracy to destroy Turkey through another Crusade. Erdogan has also publicly called for a "breeding war" in Europe to ensure that Turkish Muslims eventually take control of the continent, in retaliation for this "conspiracy." In November 2015, Erdogan's Turkey almost started World War III after the Turkish military shot down two Russian fighter jets over Syrian territory on false pretenses. Erdogan's Turkey is a major sponsor of the Muslim Brotherhood and its agents that are trying to hijack American foreign policy, who threatened to assassinate President Trump after the Qatar crisis began. Erdogan's Turkey is trying to take control of $2.3 trillion in banking assets, presumably in order to fund its economy in military by 2023, the year that many (including Steve Bannon and Walid Shoebat) believe that Erdogan will formally declare himself Caliph 100 years after Turkey first became a secular country.
::Since 2003, Erdogan has slowly transformed Turkey from the secular paradise that Flynn talks about, into a totalitarian, neo-Islamist dictatorship, where it's not uncommon to hear about violent, government-sponsored attacks on the Kurdish minority and on opposition outlets. In addition, Erdogan has drastically changed Turkey's foreign policy. Before he came to power, Turkey was a reliable American ally that pursued a largely isolationist (with a few exceptions, such as with Cyprus and Armenia) foreign policy outside of NATO affairs. Today, Erdogan's Turkey is a reliable supporter of global jihadist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS. Erdogan's Turkey is becoming increasingly militaristic, regularly threatening to invade Syria and Iraq in order to "protect" ethnic "Turkmen" (in spite of Russian and Iranian attempts to appease Erdogan by allowing him to participate in the Syrian peace process). Notice I say "Turkmen" because these people are not Turkish. Erdogan is a pan-Turkic nationalist as well as an Islamist, and wants to unite the Caucasus and Central Asia under his leadership. This policy includes forging alliances with Turkish ultranationalist groups such as the Grey Wolves (which has been linked to many terrorist plots -- including the 1981 failed assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II -- and today try to incite ethnic violence in European countries with large ethnic Turkish populations). Erdogan's Turkey is vehemently anti-Israel, having given aid to Hamas and even publicly threatened to attack Israel on at least one occasion. Erdogan has also blamed the Jews for domestic opposition to his policies, as well as for the 2013 military coup in Egypt. Erdogan's Turkey is vehemently anti-Catholic, having declared on more than one occasion that the European Union is part of a Vatican conspiracy to destroy Turkey through another Crusade. Erdogan has also publicly called for a "breeding war" in Europe to ensure that Turkish Muslims eventually take control of the continent, in retaliation for this "conspiracy." In November 2015, Erdogan's Turkey almost started World War III after the Turkish military shot down two Russian fighter jets over Syrian territory on false pretenses. Erdogan's Turkey is a major sponsor of the Muslim Brotherhood and its agents that are trying to hijack American foreign policy, who threatened to assassinate President Trump after the Qatar crisis began. Erdogan's Turkey is trying to take control of $2.3 trillion in banking assets, presumably in order to fund its economy in military by 2023, the year that many (including Steve Bannon and Walid Shoebat) believe that Erdogan will formally declare himself Caliph 100 years after Turkey first became a secular country.
::This man means business, and he likely will continue to menace the West even after Putin leaves, be it in 2018 or 2024. --[[User:James Kardys|James Kardys]] ([[User talk:James Kardys|talk]]) 12:16, 3 December 2017 (EDT)
::This man means business, and he likely will continue to menace the West even after Putin leaves, be it in 2018 or 2024. --[[User:Geopolitician|Geopolitician]] ([[User talk:Geopolitician|talk]]) 12:16, 3 December 2017 (EDT)
:::Turkey's support of Al Qaeda & ISIS is in keeping with US policy since the troop surge. There have been about three phases of the war on terror thus far: 2001-2006 focused on al Qaeda; beginning with the Troop Surge, the focus was redirected to Iran & Iranian proxy militias. After the US withdrawal from Iraq in late 2011, the US, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, and others openly supported Sunni groups, including al Qaeda, to oppose Iran/Shite influence all the way to the Meditteranean coast, Syria, Lebanon, Hezbollah, Yemen, and elsewhere. Nobody in DC at the time imagined ISIS would start whacking heads or burn down the US embassy. But when it did happen, Flynn became the lone dissenter as one of 16 agency heads in the [[US intelligence community]]. When Flynn discovered weapons supplied through Qatar, intended for ISIS, were used to slaughter Americans in Afghanistan, he was outraged. He got booted from the IC.
:::Turkey's support of Al Qaeda & ISIS is in keeping with US policy since the troop surge. There have been about three phases of the war on terror thus far: 2001-2006 focused on al Qaeda; beginning with the Troop Surge, the focus was redirected to Iran & Iranian proxy militias. After the US withdrawal from Iraq in late 2011, the US, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, and others openly supported Sunni groups, including al Qaeda, to oppose Iran/Shite influence all the way to the Meditteranean coast, Syria, Lebanon, Hezbollah, Yemen, and elsewhere. Nobody in DC at the time imagined ISIS would start whacking heads or burn down the US embassy. But when it did happen, Flynn became the lone dissenter as one of 16 agency heads in the [[US intelligence community]]. When Flynn discovered weapons supplied through Qatar, intended for ISIS, were used to slaughter Americans in Afghanistan, he was outraged. He got booted from the IC.
:::The Qatar Crisis you mention began when Trump (after Flynn left) shut down the arms smuggling pipeline Obama used to support ISIS. Flynn discovered some Stinger missiles Obama delivered to Qatari arms trafficers were sent to Afghanistan and shot down US helicopters. Some of the mysterious releases of Taliban commanders from Gitmo, that Obama took heat for, evidently was an effort to trade back some of those Stingers. The Qatar Crisis began when Trump demanded these rogue trafficers in Qatar be routed out and cut off from other members of the alliance, until the government of Qatar does a purge. Saudi Arabia is doing a similar purge at the moment. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 05:04, 5 December 2017 (EST)
:::The Qatar Crisis you mention began when Trump (after Flynn left) shut down the arms smuggling pipeline Obama used to support ISIS. Flynn discovered some Stinger missiles Obama delivered to Qatari arms trafficers were sent to Afghanistan and shot down US helicopters. Some of the mysterious releases of Taliban commanders from Gitmo, that Obama took heat for, evidently was an effort to trade back some of those Stingers. The Qatar Crisis began when Trump demanded these rogue trafficers in Qatar be routed out and cut off from other members of the alliance, until the government of Qatar does a purge. Saudi Arabia is doing a similar purge at the moment. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 05:04, 5 December 2017 (EST)
::::You just stated "Turkey's support of Al Qaeda & ISIS is in keeping with US policy since the troop surge." Are you implying that all of Erdogan's behavior since 2011 was on the orders of the Deep State, and that his "break" from the Deep State means he is now one of the good guys? If so, then you are 100% wrong about Erdogan.
::::Erdogan didn't take part in the support of al-Qaeda and ISIS because the US asked him to, or because he thought it was necessary to contain Iran. He did it because he's one of them. Did you read my reply to your initial reply? Erdogan's activities in Islamist circles can be traced as far back as the 1970s. He even served time in prison because he attempted to incite an Islamist uprising in Istanbul following the 1997 coup. Yes, he pursued more moderate policies for the first few years after he first became PM in 2003, but his turn back to Islamism predates the Arab Spring by several years, as early as 2007. Note that during his "moderate" years, Turkey was recovering from a major economic crisis. As Turkey's economy not only improved, but became one of the most promising of the world's major developing economies, Erdogan slowly began to take his "moderate" mask off. He never planned to govern as a moderate permanently. He has always planned to have Turkey become a great power that would be the true successor to the Ottoman caliphate by 2023.
::::You also stated "Nobody in DC at the time imagined ISIS would start whacking heads or burn down the US embassy." That's also not true. Many people in DC -- along with the governments of the other countries who participated in this travesty -- knew what would happen as a result of arming al-Qaeda and ISIS. That's why they supported that policy in the first place. They WANTED ISIS to rise and begin causing chaos across not just the Middle East, but also the Western world. Why? A variety of reasons, ranging from excuses to impose more government tyranny to geopolitics to plain old Islamophilia. In Erdogan's case, he knows that the more unstable Turkey's neighbors are, the easier it is for him to expand Turkey's sphere of influence, if not its territory. Notice that it wasn't until after the rise of ISIS that Turkey began to establish a permanent military presence in both Syria and Iraq, without the permission of either country's governments.
::::Now, let's talk about Gulen. Gulen was actually an ally of Erdogan until late 2013, when they had a falling out over Erdogan's domestic policies, NOT his foreign policy. The Saudis and their allies did not capitalize on this breakup immediately. At first, they ignored it. However, it slowly became apparent that Saudi Arabia was committing economic suicide by dramatically increasing military spending while oil prices continued to fall. In November 2015, the IMF released a report stating that Saudi Arabia would be bankrupt by 2020 if it continued its current spending patterns. Since that report was issued, Saudi Arabia has largely refused to heed its warnings. Why is that? Because it knows it's screwed either way. If Saudi Arabia stops its current spending pattern, it will lose its Cold War with Iran, and will cease to be the dominant power in the region. If Saudi Arabia spends its way into bankruptcy, the same scenario will play out. With this knowledge at hand, the Saudis are focusing on only one thing: lashing out. They are becoming increasngly belligerent because they know the end is near. By 2020, I expect the Saudis to be ready to launch one final war as a last ditch effort to prevent the inevitable. This war will be targeted at everybody who poses a challenge to its regional hegemony. 2020 is just over two years away. With Turkey not only rising, but also attempting to assert dominance of the Sunni world, the Saudis can no longer afford to have Erdogan as an ally, despite both being Sunnis. For the Saudis, Erdogan had outworn his welcome, and now had to be taken out.
::::Now, where does the Deep State come into play? The Deep State always had an affinity for the Saudis. But it also always had an affinity for Erdogan. Two of its biggest and closest allies were about to turn on each other. Oh, what to do? The answer to that question is extremely difficult to figure out. One on hand we have Gulen, but on the other hand, we have Erdogan's behavior both during and after the coup. The to-the-wire escape? The fighter jets not shooting him down when they had a chance? The military folding to the post-coup uprising so easily? Erdogan stating that he knew there were pro-Gulen elements in the military but he deliberately ignored their allegiances and continued to embrace them "Because they said 'Allah?'" It appears (at least to me) that Erdogan knew at least some of the coup plotters' plans way in advance, and decided to play along with them for personal gain. Perhaps somebody within the Deep State told him what was going to happen. If that's true, then that could mean only one thing: there is no unified "Deep State." The "Deep State" is in fact a loose coalition of various subversive elements within the IC, that come together on various issues and fight against each other on others. In this case, the coup was a battle within the Deep State, between the pro-Saudi elements and the pro-Erdogan elements. And the pro-Erdogan elements won.
::::Because of Flynn's ties to the Erdogan regime, I strongly suspect that he was not motivated by a desire to fight terrorism, but by a desire to protect Erdogan. I don't believe for one second that he didn't know what the Deep State's ultimate goal was before 2014. Everyone knew. It was common knowledge, even in the mainstream media. I suspect that the real reason Flynn was ousted from the IC was because he was one of the first members of the Deep State to see the upcoming Turkish-Saudi Cold War, and sided with Erdogan before others in the Deep State found it cool. Had he kept his mouth shut for another year or two, he likely would still have his IC position today.
::::Now, let's take a look at the nature of this Turkish-Saudi Cold War. ISIS is Wahabbi. The same sect within Sunni Islam that the Saudis belong to. Historically, the Wahabbis and the Ottomans were bitter enemies because they were competitiors for control of the Sunni world. In the aftermath of last year's attempted coup in Turkey, this ancient emnity has been resurrected. Now, do recall that it was the Wahabbis that attacked us on 9/11. The image that many Americans have of the Islamic world today was created by the actions of 19 Wahabbi terrorists. Erdogan and his shills know this, and see this as a weakness for the American people. For this reason, they have borrowed rhetoric originally used by the Mullahs in Iran, stating that it is the Wahabbis, not all of Islam, that must be the target of the War on Terror. And they, like the Mullahs in Iran, follow up by stating that because they are the main regional opposition to Wahabbism, if you oppose their would-be Caliph, you are globalists who shill for the Deep State. This is Taqiyya at its finest, and its darkest.
::::The first major battle of the Turkish-Saudi Cold War is the crisis in Qatar. Yes, its direct cause was the Saudis and the Qataris getting into a spat over the latter's arming of al-Qaeda and ISIS. But there is a much deeper meaning to the crisis. The Saudis are still in an alliance with the Wahabbis. Theyare not opposed to ISIS in principle. They are opposed to ISIS due to geopolitics. ISIS has always had a cozier relationship with the Turks due to its enmity towards the Saudi monarchy, which it views as not Islamic enough. Bin Laden held the same views about the monarchy, though that did not stop many in the royal family from privately supporting him, as they did with ISIS prior to the outbreak of the Turkish-Saudi Cold War. Meanwhile, one of Saudi Arabia's demands in its initial ultimatum was that the Qataris close a Turkish naval base in that country. Erdogan responded by threatening to respond militarily if there were any attempts to expel Turkish troops from Qatar, knowing full well that this would almost certainly result in a hot war between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia ended up backing down, but the damage was done. What was before an unofficial cold war was now official.
::::Since the failed coup and especially the Qatar crisis, Erdogan has done a complete 180 on geopolitical alignments. Before the failed coup, he was mostly pro-Saudi, though he had a love-hate relationship with Iran. Now, he's firmly in the pro-Iran camp, despite the fact that he's still fighting a proxy war with Iran in Syria. Same thing regarding Russia. As a reward, Russia and Iran -- despite Assad's protests -- have allowed Erdogan to have a less restricted reign in both Syria and Iraq, and now look the other way as he continues to build his own caliphate despite their own national interests. This turn of events is like Christmas to Erdogan. He now has a great power with the largest nuclear stockpile in the world essentially guaranteeing that he won't have to worry about American opposition to his plans, because the United States will face dire consequences if it dares to intervene. As relations with the United States continue to deteriorate, Erdogan has reached a point where he cannot afford to see the United States and Russia normalize relations. Should that happen, Putin will lose all incentive to continue supporting Erdogan. When the United States and Russia nearly brokered a peace deal in Syria last month, Erdogan was furious, and demanded that both the United States AND Russia withdraw from Syria. Since then, relations between the United States and Russia have re-soured, and Russia is actually in the process of planning a troop withdrawal, an event that will only allow Erdogan to expand Turkish power further into the Levant as Turkey and Iran prepare for war with Saudi Arabia over regional hegemony.
::::As the outbreak of war draws closer, I expect more and more subversives within the Deep State to drop support for Saudi Arabia and promote the Turkish-Iranian axis -- which seeks to unite both the Sunni and Shiite worlds under the common cause of the Muslim Brotherhood. And when the war finally begins, so -- I believe -- will the next World War. Our goal now is to prepare for the inevitable. Bannon is perhaps the only major figure in the MAGA movement who is fully aware of what is about to happen. When he brings up foreign policy, all of us should listen from now on, especially President Trump. There is a reason we have fallen back in with the Saudis. There is no lost between us and them, but the cause is noble. A new age is beginning. A caliphate is rising, and it is not coming from the enemy we expected it to come from. There is no room for pointing fingers at the Wahabbis and saying that they are the only problem anymore. Flynn apparently does not see it that way. He has sold his soul to an enemy that is more powerful than most of us can possibly imagine. --[[User:Geopolitician|Geopolitician]] ([[User talk:Geopolitician|talk]]) 00:26, 21 December 2017 (EDT)