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→To be taken seriously: quoting, germ theory, and what evolution is
:::I do refer to reference 4. It has many generalizations but no substantial evidence to support its claims nor does it give reference to the position outside of creationistic POV. Therefore it is another matter of POV vs empirical evidence.
:::I do refer to reference 4. It has many generalizations but no substantial evidence to support its claims nor does it give reference to the position outside of creationistic POV. Therefore it is another matter of POV vs empirical evidence.
:::Please withhold the quotes, there have been many scientists that have been misquoted or have their quotes taken out of context of what they were saying, quote mining is not a substitution for empirical evidence. I know not a molecular biologist that would say otherwise in regards to evolution's contribution to the understanding of Germ theory or Virology. In fact, many medications for the treatment of HIV are based on the evidence of HIV evolving resistance to the medications, due to the mechanisms discussed in TOE. Many antibiotics are also developed with this understanding of how bacteria evolve, once again through the mechanisms describe in the TOE, and are more effective at treating a patient. So the science behind the TOE is something applicable to the modern world and therefore would fall under the definition of operational sciences discussed in the article. However, consider that the distinction is only applied by those of the creationist POV and shown to only be useful in a broad meaning of sciences.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 12:14, 7 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Please withhold the quotes, there have been many scientists that have been misquoted or have their quotes taken out of context of what they were saying, quote mining is not a substitution for empirical evidence. I know not a molecular biologist that would say otherwise in regards to evolution's contribution to the understanding of Germ theory or Virology. In fact, many medications for the treatment of HIV are based on the evidence of HIV evolving resistance to the medications, due to the mechanisms discussed in TOE. Many antibiotics are also developed with this understanding of how bacteria evolve, once again through the mechanisms describe in the TOE, and are more effective at treating a patient. So the science behind the TOE is something applicable to the modern world and therefore would fall under the definition of operational sciences discussed in the article. However, consider that the distinction is only applied by those of the creationist POV and shown to only be useful in a broad meaning of sciences.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 12:14, 7 May 2007 (EDT)
:::: I think reference 4 has adequate information. We are talking here about how to categorise different types of science; that's not something that you can provide empirical evidence on. It's more a matter of looking at the argument and seeing if it makes sense.
:::: I've seen creationists accused of misquoting or taking quotes out of context far more than I've seen scientists misquoted or taken out of context. In other words, it doesn't happen anywhere near as often as claimed.
:::: Surely germ theory started with Pasteur, who was an anti-evolutionist, which was my basis for disputing that germ theory has grown out of evolution.
:::: Your comment about HIV begs the question of what [[types of evolution|evolution really is]]. I would dispute that the gaining resistance to medication ''is'' evolution, as it involves no new genetic [[information]].
:::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:02, 9 May 2007 (EDT)