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::::::Most of the rest of your post is based on your last point, that evolution does not always involve new information. This is the critical issue. It is true that evolution ''as currently defined by evolutionists'' does include changes that don't increase information. It is just as true that evolution includes (and this is the popular sense) the descent of all living things from a common ancestor, ''and that this is only possible by the addition of enormous amounts of new genetic information''. Furthermore, it is true that it is this aspect that creationists disagree with; they have no problem with mutations, speciation, nor changes in gene frequency. It is the increase in genetic information that is needed for one kind of creature to evolve into another kind, and this is ''not'' what is observed in the examples that you provided.
::::::Most of the rest of your post is based on your last point, that evolution does not always involve new information. This is the critical issue. It is true that evolution ''as currently defined by evolutionists'' does include changes that don't increase information. It is just as true that evolution includes (and this is the popular sense) the descent of all living things from a common ancestor, ''and that this is only possible by the addition of enormous amounts of new genetic information''. Furthermore, it is true that it is this aspect that creationists disagree with; they have no problem with mutations, speciation, nor changes in gene frequency. It is the increase in genetic information that is needed for one kind of creature to evolve into another kind, and this is ''not'' what is observed in the examples that you provided.
::::::[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:26, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
::::::[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:26, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
::::Philip, there is not a clear distinction since sciences work off each other. Molecular biology for example has roots from chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, biology, biochemistry, and genetics. One major area of molecular biology is evolution, at a molecular level. So would this be considered an origins science or an operation science since it is used for pharmaceutical development? This is one of the many reasons why the scientific community does not try the classification, it is not a clear classification therefore not useful to categorize a discipline.
::::Molecular biology really did not become a scientific discipline till the early 60’s upon the understanding of DNA’s role in genomic material in the 1950’s. So yes science fields have been shown to pop up under short periods of time, however roots for these fields are normally founded to occur much earlier. Girolamo Fracastoro, Agostino Bassi, Friedrich Henle and others had suggested germ theory.
::::Philip just to show you a little bit about genomic sequences, DNA is composed of 4 nucleotides. RNA is composed of 4 nucleotides. Between the two nucleic acids types we have a total of 5 nucleotides. RNA has a reading frame of 3 nucleotides per codon, encoding 20 amino acids, most proteins consist of thousands of amino acids. When you look at the number of amino acids that can be produced in relation to the number of nucleic acids coding for them you can see the versatility in the genome to produce large variance with the same genomic material. Not to mention the fact of chaperone proteins folding the translated polypeptide chain into different shapes allowing for different active sites on the same protein sequence, causes variance as well. Now with all of that out of the way I can explain the remainder of your statement. Your statement and emphasis of evolution as currently defined by evolutionists is misleading, this is the definition as defined and accepted by biological scientists world wide. Evolution is an accumulation of changes of genomic material that leads to phenotypical changes in an organism. Changes of genomic material do not necessarily mean additional genomic material. But to provide you with an example that organisms can receive additional genomic material through evolution lets look at one molecular mechanism that is responsible for the correction of DNA, nucleotide-excision repair. This is how it works, a segment of the damaged DNA strand is excised, and the gap is filled by DNA polymerase and ligase using the complementary DNA strand as a template. Sometimes this does not work correctly due to the biochemical properties of the environment, causing mistakes. If this mistake occurs during meiosis then there is a possibility of a duplication of material into the genome of that cell and is passed on to further generations from that cell. The reason for this is that nucleotide-excision repair is an ever constant mechanism, meaning it is occurring at all times. So if DNA synthesis is occurring during the S phase of meiosis, nucleotide-excision repair can cause a repeat in the reading frame of the DNA and add more sequence to the genome. This would inevitably cause an addition to the genetic material.
::::My last paragraph should explain why it is not necessary for enormous amounts of new genetic material to cause phenotypical changes in an organism’s offspring. Just compare the size of genomes between bacteria and insects, you will find several examples of bacterial genomes being larger than insects, as well as between insects and mammals. This is a straw man argument.
::::You can do the math in regard to the possible combinations of amino acids that can be coded from DNA and RNA and see a very large number of diverse proteins that can come from it but keep in mind that that is just the first level of protein development, most proteins go through several morphological changes before they become active, this is done with the addition of chaperon proteins, signaling proteins and other processes within the cell. The variance is more than enough to render the argument that an addition of genomic material is needed to express phenotypical changes and therefore speciation.
::::As for creationists having no problem with mutations, speciation, or changes in gene frequency, what can I say other than those are the base mechanisms for evolution. Mutations cause changes in gene frequency which over time cause speciation which is an evolved (meaning changed, not improved) form of the previous species. To be honest I do not see what the argument is about if Creationists have no problem with mutation, speciation or gene frequency variation.
::::--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:09, 9 May 2007 (EDT)