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Talk:Progressivism (view source)
Revision as of 02:10, September 18, 2019
, 02:10, September 18, 2019→Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
:::::Did you read the footnote Solzhenitsyn has about killing dogs? Once you digest that, you understand much of progressivism. I can't understand why it's just a footnote, but there are many such things like that in ''Gulag''. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 19:58, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
:::::Did you read the footnote Solzhenitsyn has about killing dogs? Once you digest that, you understand much of progressivism. I can't understand why it's just a footnote, but there are many such things like that in ''Gulag''. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 19:58, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
:::::I cut this part for space reasons, but could just as easily used it as the next paragraph beginning, ''How many citizens who robbed knew'', which describes modern America. This excerpt here describes America since the rise of the [[New Left]] in the 1970s as referenced in the Intro. The Progressive Soviets were 50 years ahead of America:
::::::''The twenties, the thirties, the forties, the fifties! Who does not remember that eternal threat hovering over the citizen: Don't go where it's dark!. Don't come home late! Don't wear your. watch! Don'f carry money with you! Don't leave the apartment empty! Locks! Shutters! Dogs! (And nowadays those writers of satirical columns who weren't cleaned out at the time ridicule these loyal watchdogs. . ' .. )1.''
:::::And here is part of the footnote right before the paragraph I excerpted:
::::::''In the consistent struggle against the individuality of a man, first they deprived him of one friend-the horse, promising a tractor in its place. As if a horse were only draft power for a plow, and not, instead, your living friend in sorrow and happiness, a member of your family, part of your own heart! And soon afterward they began a persistent campaign against his second friend-the dog. Dogs had to be registered; they were hauled off to the skinners; and often special teams from '''the local soviets simply shot dead every dog they came across. And there were no hygienic or miserly economic reasons for this - the basis was much more profound: After all, a dog doesn't listen to the radio, doesn't read the papers; he is a citizen who is, so to speak, beyond the control of the state, a physically strong one, moreover, but his strength goes not to the state but to defend his master as an individual, without regard to any kind of decree that might be issued against him in the local soviet and any kind of warrant they might come to him with at night.''' In Bulgaria in 1960 the citizens were told, and not as a joke either, to fatten up ... pigs-instead of their dogs! Pigs don't have principles. They grow their meat for everyone who has a knife. However, The persecution of dogs never extended to those dogs who were useful to the state - the Security and guard dogs.''
::::A profound example of Progressive reasoning and thinking, not far removed from forcing Christian caterers, florists, and photographers to serve at gay weddings. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 22:10, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
::::::Can you explain what any of this has to do with Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt? [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 20:24, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
::::::Can you explain what any of this has to do with Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt? [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 20:24, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
:::::::Sure. TR & Wilson were not elected as progressives. When TR openly ran as one, he was soundly defeated. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:42, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
:::::::Sure. TR & Wilson were not elected as progressives. When TR openly ran as one, he was soundly defeated. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:42, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
::::::::I don't follow. What do TR's and Wilson's elections have to do with the use of hunger as a motivating tool by the government? Maybe I should be even more specific. Once President, how did Woodrow Wilson use hunger to motivate people? How did Theodore Roosevelt keep people starved in order to make sure they acted more "progressively"? [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 20:55, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
::::::::I don't follow. What do TR's and Wilson's elections have to do with the use of hunger as a motivating tool by the government? Maybe I should be even more specific. Once President, how did Woodrow Wilson use hunger to motivate people? How did Theodore Roosevelt keep people starved in order to make sure they acted more "progressively"? [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 20:55, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::TR & Wilson were big government, [[civil service system]] reformers. TR & Wilson's expansion of rule by bureaucracy was expanded upon by [[Marxist-Leninist]] theory in the 1920s. Lenin even used TR's anti-monopolistic "trust busting" big government bureaucracy to attack "speculators", which [[Bernie Sanders]] just did in last Thursday night's debates. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 21:40, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::TR & Wilson were big government, [[civil service system]] reformers. TR & Wilson's expansion of rule by bureaucracy was expanded upon by [[Marxist-Leninist]] theory in the 1920s. Lenin even used TR's anti-monopolistic "trust busting" big government bureaucracy to attack "speculators", which [[Bernie Sanders]] just did in last Thursday night's debates. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 21:40, 17 September 2019 (EDT)