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::::Is it your intention to tell me that you believe there were good big-government progressives? Specifically, do you think the original big-government progressives of the 1900s were "good progressives"? [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 11:48, 5 October 2019 (EDT)
::::Is it your intention to tell me that you believe there were good big-government progressives? Specifically, do you think the original big-government progressives of the 1900s were "good progressives"? [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 11:48, 5 October 2019 (EDT)
:::::I'm saying Progressivism has different shades of meaning since the original popularization of the term c.1882. I've summarized the basic thesis here ([[#CivilDemocratic_Party_service_replaces_Reconstruction_and_the_spoils_system]]) and here ([[Civil_service_system#U.S._civil_service]].
:::::I'm saying Progressivism has different shades of meaning since the original popularization of the term c.1882. I've summarized the basic thesis here ([[Democratic_Party#Civil_service_replaces_Reconstruction_and_the_spoils_system]]) and here ([[Civil_service_system#U.S._civil_service]].
:::::It cannot be understood without a full understanding of the Spoils system and Political patronage (and their potential for rampant corruption), which still exists in many states and municipalities. Additionally, it has nothing to do with social policy, other than lifetime bureaucrats attempting to hold onto their jobs and implement social spending programs legislated by elected officials, which itself is a hybrid Spoils system that extends itself past a two year election cycle.
:::::It cannot be understood without a full understanding of the Spoils system and Political patronage (and their potential for rampant corruption), which still exists in many states and municipalities. Additionally, it has nothing to do with social policy, other than lifetime bureaucrats attempting to hold onto their jobs and implement social spending programs legislated by elected officials, which itself is a hybrid Spoils system that extends itself past a two year election cycle.