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Debate: Does the Magisterium have authority over the Bible, or does the Bible have authority over the Magisterium? (view source)
Revision as of 09:56, August 7, 2020
, 09:56, August 7, 2020→Refutation: 1 Peter 1:13 and 2 Peter 1:20 do not support Roman Catholic Magisterium
::For the benefit of readers who need to check for themselves as the Beroeans did in Acts 17:10-12, the above chapter-and-verse passages are: Romans 13:1-2; Matthew 16:18; 1 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 2:9; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Acts 20:28; Ephesians 2:21-22; John 14:16-17; John 16:13; Hebrews 13:17; Acts 20:28 (''again''); '''2''' Thessalonians 2:15; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18; 1 John 2:18-19; Jude 8; Jude 19; John 2:18-19 (''again''); Galatians 1:6-7; '''2''' Corinthians 11:4; Hebrews 13:17 (''again''); 1 Peter 2:13-17; 1 Peter 5:5-6; Romans 13:1-2 (''again''); 1 Peter 5:5-6 (''again''). Compare John 8:43; John 8:47.<br>Let me point out that in Ephesians 2:19-20 the household of God (''which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth'' 1 Timothy 3:15) is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone (supporting the whole foundation); and that the new Jerusalem has '''twelve foundations''', and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (but the Lamb is not one of the twelve foundations, Revelation 20:16); and that the living '''stone''' is joined by living '''stones''' built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2:4-5). There is no contradiction in Jesus saying to Peter (= "rock"), "you are a '''rock''', and on this '''rock''' I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". <br>Since scripture cannot contradict scripture, "and the scripture cannot be broken", because God "cannot deny himself", there is no contradiction in the Bible saying Jesus is the rock foundation supporting Peter and the apostles and prophets as the twelve foundations of the new Jerusalem and that Peter is the rock on which he built his church as He Himself said according to the Greek grammar of what he said which points to Peter not Jesus. The foundation of the church is firm as rock, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 7:24.<br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 05:50, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
::For the benefit of readers who need to check for themselves as the Beroeans did in Acts 17:10-12, the above chapter-and-verse passages are: Romans 13:1-2; Matthew 16:18; 1 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 2:9; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Acts 20:28; Ephesians 2:21-22; John 14:16-17; John 16:13; Hebrews 13:17; Acts 20:28 (''again''); '''2''' Thessalonians 2:15; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18; 1 John 2:18-19; Jude 8; Jude 19; John 2:18-19 (''again''); Galatians 1:6-7; '''2''' Corinthians 11:4; Hebrews 13:17 (''again''); 1 Peter 2:13-17; 1 Peter 5:5-6; Romans 13:1-2 (''again''); 1 Peter 5:5-6 (''again''). Compare John 8:43; John 8:47.<br>Let me point out that in Ephesians 2:19-20 the household of God (''which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth'' 1 Timothy 3:15) is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone (supporting the whole foundation); and that the new Jerusalem has '''twelve foundations''', and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (but the Lamb is not one of the twelve foundations, Revelation 20:16); and that the living '''stone''' is joined by living '''stones''' built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2:4-5). There is no contradiction in Jesus saying to Peter (= "rock"), "you are a '''rock''', and on this '''rock''' I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". <br>Since scripture cannot contradict scripture, "and the scripture cannot be broken", because God "cannot deny himself", there is no contradiction in the Bible saying Jesus is the rock foundation supporting Peter and the apostles and prophets as the twelve foundations of the new Jerusalem and that Peter is the rock on which he built his church as He Himself said according to the Greek grammar of what he said which points to Peter not Jesus. The foundation of the church is firm as rock, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 7:24.<br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 05:50, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
::The Greek of the New Testament indisputably shows that Peter is the rock, not Jesus: '''πέτρος''' Greek '''Petros''' as an appellative: thou art a '''rock''', Aram. '''<big>כֵּיפָא</big> ''kepa'''''. The form '''ὁ πέτρος''' is likewise common among classical writers, and that <u>not merely in the sense of a stone</u>, as everywhere in Homer in contradistinction to '''πέτρα''' Greek '''petra''' (see Duncan, p. 937, ed. Rost, and Buttmann, Lexil. II. p. 179), <u>but also as meaning a '''rock'''</u> (Plat. Ax. p. 371 E: '''Σισύφου πέτρος'''; Soph. Phil. 272, O. C. 19, 1591; Pind. Nem. iv. 46, x. 126). Jesus declares Peter to be a '''rock''' on account of that strong and stedfast faith in himself to which, under the influence of a special revelation from God, he had just given expression. According to '''John 1:43''', however, Jesus conferred the Grecized form of the name '''Cephas ''Kepas''''' Aram. '''<big>כֵּיפָא</big> ''kepa'' rock''' upon him at their very first interview (according to '''Mark 3:16''', somewhat later); but our passage '''Matthew 16:18''' is not to be understood as simply recording the giving of the name, or the giving of it for the second time. It is rather intended to be taken as a record of the declaration made by Jesus, to the effect that '''Simon''' was in reality all that the name, conferred upon him, ''implied''. Consequently our passage is in no way inconsistent with that of '''John 1:43''' just referred to, which could only have been the case if the words used had been '''σὺ κληθήσῃ Πέτρος'''.
::'''καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ''' The Greek emphasis is on '''ΤΑΎΤῌ ταύτῃ''', which points to Peter (not to Jesus, as Augustine would have us suppose), and to be understood thus: '''on no other than on this rock'''. —''retrieved from'' '''https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/16-18.htm'''<br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 05:56, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
==Scripture has authority over the Roman church==
==Scripture has authority over the Roman church==