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Debate:Does the Catholic Church have the biblical authority of Christ Himself to preach and to teach the truth forever? (view source)
Revision as of 12:30, August 8, 2020
, 12:30, August 8, 2020→User:Dataclarifier
::For the benefit of readers who need to check for themselves as the Beroeans did in Acts 17:10-12, the above chapter-and-verse passages are: Romans 13:1-2; Matthew 16:18; 1 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 2:9; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Acts 20:28; Ephesians 2:21-22; John 14:16-17; John 16:13; Hebrews 13:17; Acts 20:28 (''again''); '''2''' Thessalonians 2:15; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18; 1 John 2:18-19; Jude 8; Jude 19; John 2:18-19 (''again''); Galatians 1:6-7; '''2''' Corinthians 11:4; Hebrews 13:17 (''again''); 1 Peter 2:13-17; 1 Peter 5:5-6; Romans 13:1-2 (''again''); 1 Peter 5:5-6 (''again''). Compare John 8:43; John 8:47.<br>Let me point out that in Ephesians 2:19-20 the household of God (''which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth'' 1 Timothy 3:15) is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone (supporting the whole foundation); and that the new Jerusalem has '''twelve foundations''', and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (but the Lamb is not one of the twelve foundations, Revelation 20:16); and that the living '''stone''' is joined by living '''stones''' built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2:4-5). There is no contradiction in Jesus saying to Peter (= "rock"), "you are a '''rock''', and on this '''rock''' I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". <br>Since scripture cannot contradict scripture, "and the scripture cannot be broken", because God "cannot deny himself", there is no contradiction in the Bible saying Jesus is the rock foundation supporting Peter and the apostles and prophets as the twelve foundations of the new Jerusalem and that Peter is the rock on which he built his church as He Himself said according to the Greek grammar of what he said which points to Peter not Jesus. The foundation of the church is firm as rock, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 7:24.<br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 05:47, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
::For the benefit of readers who need to check for themselves as the Beroeans did in Acts 17:10-12, the above chapter-and-verse passages are: Romans 13:1-2; Matthew 16:18; 1 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 2:9; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Acts 20:28; Ephesians 2:21-22; John 14:16-17; John 16:13; Hebrews 13:17; Acts 20:28 (''again''); '''2''' Thessalonians 2:15; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18; 1 John 2:18-19; Jude 8; Jude 19; John 2:18-19 (''again''); Galatians 1:6-7; '''2''' Corinthians 11:4; Hebrews 13:17 (''again''); 1 Peter 2:13-17; 1 Peter 5:5-6; Romans 13:1-2 (''again''); 1 Peter 5:5-6 (''again''). Compare John 8:43; John 8:47.<br>Let me point out that in Ephesians 2:19-20 the household of God (''which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth'' 1 Timothy 3:15) is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone (supporting the whole foundation); and that the new Jerusalem has '''twelve foundations''', and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (but the Lamb is not one of the twelve foundations, Revelation 20:16); and that the living '''stone''' is joined by living '''stones''' built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2:4-5). There is no contradiction in Jesus saying to Peter (= "rock"), "you are a '''rock''', and on this '''rock''' I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". <br>Since scripture cannot contradict scripture, "and the scripture cannot be broken", because God "cannot deny himself", there is no contradiction in the Bible saying Jesus is the rock foundation supporting Peter and the apostles and prophets as the twelve foundations of the new Jerusalem and that Peter is the rock on which he built his church as He Himself said according to the Greek grammar of what he said which points to Peter not Jesus. The foundation of the church is firm as rock, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 7:24.<br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 05:47, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
::In 1 Corinthians 3:10 '''Paul''' says that '''he''' is the one who laid the foundation: "According to the commission of God given to me, like a skilled '''master builder I laid a foundation''', and another man is building upon it." ''But in the next verse he says'', "For no other foundation can any man lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus." This is true! But a literalist would see in these two verses an absolute contradiction. Consider this: no man can lay the foundation of the church Jesus built; only God can lay the foundation, and Jesus is God ''and'' man. ''But Revelation says there are "twelve foundations"'', not "''one''". A literalist would see in these two statements an absolute contradiction in the Bible: ''how can there be twelve when there is only one?'' The '''twelve foundations''' of the new Jerusalem are not laid by man (human beings) but are laid only by God and man. A literalist would see in the one foundation and the twelve foundations a contradiction. The foundation of the apostles and prophets is laid by God the Spirit: "because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men '''moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God'''." 2 Peter 1:21. The rock of salvation laid a foundation of rock that is twelve foundations chosen. The first was Peter. One of them was "a devil" John 6:70-71. But this did not invalidate the word of the Lord. Afterward, the Eleven, led by Peter, chose another, guided by God: Matthias. The apostolic office was empty but then a successor was chosen by lot, just as the apostolic office of Peter vacated by death is filled by lots cast by the elders of the church from that day to this. The foundation of the twelve foundations of the church was built by the foundation (''the same foundation that Paul laid, which is Christ Jesus''), and laid by Him on a foundation of '''a rock-''Petros''''', the first of twelve foundations He laid, and was built up into a house of living stones by the living stone as a dwelling-place of God in the Spirit, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. There is no contradiction.--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 08:30, 8 August 2020 (EDT)
:::Roman Catholic doctrine is built on a one legged stool that Peter is the foundation rock of the church, not Christ. And furthermore that "all authority", which includes "authority" to nullify prophecy and scripture, was passed to men. When this one leg is kicked out from the foundation, the entire doctrinal structure comes down.
:::Roman Catholic doctrine is built on a one legged stool that Peter is the foundation rock of the church, not Christ. And furthermore that "all authority", which includes "authority" to nullify prophecy and scripture, was passed to men. When this one leg is kicked out from the foundation, the entire doctrinal structure comes down.