Changes

::::::You're actually veering closer to the truth with your comments on Moses and David, however God did not tell Moses to murder the Egyptian anymore than he told David or Abraham to sin with Bathsheba and Hagar. Moral of the story: God has entrusted his flock to fallible men and has never transferred his sovereignty to them. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 17:13, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

::::::You're actually veering closer to the truth with your comments on Moses and David, however God did not tell Moses to murder the Egyptian anymore than he told David or Abraham to sin with Bathsheba and Hagar. Moral of the story: God has entrusted his flock to fallible men and has never transferred his sovereignty to them. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 17:13, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:::::::Even being fallible, fallen sinners and corrupt murderers, their '''doctrine''' is true. What God says through them is the truth. That is the same guarantee of the truth of the interpretations of scripture and apostolic tradition by the interpretation of the [[Magisterium]] of the Church the one holy universal and apostolic body of Christ, the household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail, guided forever into the truth by the Holy Spirit of truth, '''as promised infallibly by Jesus as recorded in the Gospel of John'''. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:53, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:::::::Even being fallible, fallen sinners and corrupt murderers, their '''doctrine''' is true. What God says through them is the truth. That is the same guarantee of the truth of the interpretations of scripture and apostolic tradition by the interpretation of the [[Magisterium]] of the Church the one holy universal and apostolic body of Christ, the household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail, guided forever into the truth by the Holy Spirit of truth, '''as promised infallibly by Jesus as recorded in the Gospel of John'''. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:53, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

::::::::Well, I think God using two murderers, Moses and David, to author significant portions of his Word says more about God's grace and forgiveness. Perhaps that's why he used them. No one is disputing the veracity of the truth the wrote. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 18:01, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

::::::::Well, I think God using two murderers, Moses and David, to author significant portions of his Word says more about God's grace and forgiveness. Perhaps that's why he used them. No one is disputing the veracity of they truth the wrote. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 18:02, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:Second question: When Sarah suggested to Abraham that perhaps God meant to fulfill his promise to Abraham by taking her handmaid Hagar, was that ordained by God? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 16:58, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

:Second question: When Sarah suggested to Abraham that perhaps God meant to fulfill his promise to Abraham by taking her handmaid Hagar, was that ordained by God? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 16:58, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

:All these actions were a bit presumptuous on the part of godly men, Moses, Abraham, and David. They were decisions made by men, acting in the flesh without the spirit of God. All had serious longterm consequences as the result of sin.  Now we understand a bit  more what Paul means by apt to teach, rightly dividing the word of truth. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 11:14, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:All these actions were a bit presumptuous on the part of godly men, Moses, Abraham, and David. They were decisions made by men, acting in the flesh without the spirit of God. All had serious longterm consequences as the result of sin.  Now we understand a bit  more what Paul means by apt to teach, rightly dividing the word of truth. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 11:14, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:I suppose under your teaching of scripture you could justify Moses striking the rock twice or David's sin with Bathsheba, as well. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 11:26, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:I suppose under your teaching of scripture you could justify Moses striking the rock twice or David's sin with Bathsheba, as well. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]} 11:26, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

::Look at the scriptures on the authority of the church (''above section'': '''Contentions over Bible authority vs Church authority: What the Bible says about it'''). <br> Rhetorical question to consider: What church has been completely free of immoral sinners among its leaders, or free of immoral sinners within their congregations, or free of accusations of hypocrisy and scandals? --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:20, 9 August 2020 (EDT)All the churches, Orthodox, Catholic, multiple Protestant denominations, Independents, non-denominational, say the Bible is the Word of God. They differ profoundly on interpretation and doctrine. Scripture warns that wrong interpretation of the scriptures is "unto destruction" 2&nbsp;Peter 3:15-18. <br>Rhetorical question to consider: Which church "holding to the Bible as the Word of God" has the correct interpretation of the Bible free of error in interpretation? How can we know we are not being led astray? What infallible sign does the Bible give that points to the one church guaranteed to have the true interpretation of the Bible free of error, free of the danger of destruction? --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:18, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

::Look at the scriptures on the authority of the church (''above section'': '''Contentions over Bible authority vs Church authority: What the Bible says about it'''). <br> Rhetorical question to consider: What church has been completely free of immoral sinners among its leaders, or free of immoral sinners within their congregations, or free of accusations of hypocrisy and scandals? --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:20, 9 August 2020 (EDT)<br>All the churches, Orthodox, Catholic, multiple Protestant denominations, Independent, say the Bible is the Word of God. They differ profoundly on interpretation. Scripture warns that wrong interpretation of the scriptures is "unto destruction" 2&nbsp;Peter 3:15-18. Rhetorical question to consider: Which church "holding to the Bible as the Word of God" has the correct interpretation of the Bible free of error in interpretation? What infallible sign does the Bible give that points to the one church guaranteed to have the true interpretation of the Bible free of error, free of the danger of destruction? --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:13, 9 August 2020 (EDT)<br>All the churches, Orthodox, Catholic, multiple Protestant denominations, Independents, non-denominational, say the Bible is the Word of God. They differ profoundly on interpretation and doctrine. Scripture warns that wrong interpretation of the scriptures is "unto destruction" 2&nbsp;Peter 3:15-18. <br>Rhetorical question to consider: Which church "holding to the Bible as the Word of God" has the correct interpretation of the Bible free of error in interpretation? How can we know we are not being led astray? What infallible sign does the Bible give that points to the one church guaranteed to have the true interpretation of the Bible free of error, free of the danger of destruction? --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:18, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

====Proofs that condemnations of Catholic doctrine are false====

====Proofs that condemnations of Catholic doctrine are false====