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User talk:IndependentSkeptic (view source)
Revision as of 18:37, August 30, 2020
, 18:37, August 30, 2020→Debate page
::::::Post one example here. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 13:54, 30 August 2020 (EDT)
::::::Post one example here. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 13:54, 30 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::::How 'bout several (indents retained):
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Christ is the foundation stone or rock that the Christian church is built upon, not Peter. This confusion, authored by the author of confusion and father of lies, is the source of all the confusion regarding the claims to "authority" by Roman Catholic doctrine.
One mediator
The [[Catechism of the Catholic Church]] in sum essentially reads,
*''We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for '''we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves'''
*'''Isaiah 28:14''' - '' '''we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves'''
Salvation by grace
This is a denial of salvation by grace (''grace is not grace'') and a doctrine, or another gospel of salvation by works.
::::We've been over this a dozen times. The gospel was preached to Israel in the wilderness.
::::Independent Skeptic says, '''"This shows that John's water baptism unto repentance cannot be the water baptism which Jesus commanded people to receive"''' Bingo! Now reconcile what you just posted with Roman Catholic doctrine and all the drivel in the [[Infant baptism]] page. Hint: Jesus didn't command "water baptism".
:::::::Yes He did! ...
::::::::You are spamming; read the rule posted above: "providing citations to scripture without providing the actual scripture and/or its relevant context to this Debate". We are obviously talking about two different baptisms, water baptism and spirit baptism. You cannot expect readers to go through the dozens of scripture citations you provided to inspect each one to see if you are referring to water baptism or spirit baptism. Please remove the spam or a Sysop/Moderator will do it. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 13:15, 30 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::All of this runs contrary to Roman Catholic doctrine on water baptism, salvation, and receiving the Holy Spirit. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:16, 30 August 2020 (EDT)
::::<s>You are trolling again.</s> Below you state salvation is earned or merited, which is exactly what catechism teaches.
*'''Isaiah 28:14''' - '' '''we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves'''
The Christian is not under law
God says,
*'''Romans 6:14''' - ''ye are not under law but under grace''
*'''Galatians 3:10''' - ''all who rely on works of the law are under a curse''
:You just can't seem to wrap your head around the word "obey". To the spiritual believer, to "obey" means to trust and believe God. To the natural man and carnal mind, "obey" means to follow orders to avoid a spanking.
:And throughout all your spam postings, your point comes through clearly - you claim the Roman Church is God.
:God is not a tyrant who rules by threats and intimidation. But you make him out to be such and claim the Roman Church is here to enforce his ''[[diktat]]s.'' This is the opposite of grace.
:''ye are not under law but under grace''. Go ahead, keep making the case that the Roman Catholic Church denies the Bible.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches sacraments are works
God says,
*'''Galatians 3:10''' - ''all who rely on works of the law are under a curse''
:Hence, ''per'' the Bible, adherents and practitioners of the Roman Catholic faith are under a curse and not redeemed by the blood of Jesus.
*'''Isaiah 28:14''' - '' '''we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves'''
:::The parallels between apostate Israel and the apostate Roman church are unmistakable.
:::*'''Matthew 15:8-9''' - ''This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, '''teaching as doctrines the commandments of men'''.
:::*'''Mark 7:13''' - '''''making the word of God of no effect''' through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.''
::::::''Context'': Jesus is speaking of the Jews, and in particular of the Pharisees. --[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 08:03, 29 August 2020 (EDT)
:::You have rejected grace, as Israel in the wilderness did. Ye are under a curse.
:We've already proven at least 5 times your catechism is a [[fraud]]. You're just digging your hole deeper in rebellion against God and God's word.
:Unbelief in God's word.
:Unbelief is a lack of faith.
*'''Hebrews 4:2''' - ''but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.''
:Unbelief, or a lack of faith, is disobedience.
:"obey" means have faith. Why would anyone have faith in lies? And the Christian believer is not under law anyway. Does God command us to bow the knee to Satan? Satan is the god of this world.
:You either can't read or are just playing stupid now. I just cited above CCC 2068 "'''the [[Ten Commandments]] are obligatory'''". Get thee behind me, Satan.
Salvation and grace cannot be merited or earned. You need to repent, accept God's grace, and begin living life in the spirit.
:The Roman church's rejection of grace and reversion back under law is not just serious error, it is a rejection of the [[New Covenant]] entirely. Hence, you are under a curse, as God says.
:::::Go ahead, be in denial. For the third time in this section CCC 2068 "the Ten Commandments are obligatory". The law was only our schoolmaster.
:::::*'''Galatians 3:24-25''' - ''the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.''
:::::If you choose to continue under a schoolmaster and a curse, good luck. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 16:17, 28 August 2020 (EDT)
The sacraments cannot save
The sacraments of the Roman Catholic church are works of the law.
The Roman Catholic church teaches of a false gospel of [[salvation]] by works.
::::What does that have to do with receiving the sacraments?
::::Bull. It's a [[whataboutism]] that has nothing to do with the alleged "authority" of the Roman Catholic church and/or the fact salvation through sacraments is unbiblical. Please stick to the topic.
::::The problem you have is in claiming the validity of your interpretation of Matthew 16:18, on which the entire monstrosity of Roman Catholic doctrine is built.
::Your whole argument appears to [[Putting words in someone's mouth|put words in one's mouth]]. Another deceptive lie. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:57, 27 August 2020 (EDT)
::You use the Bible to twist God's word into lies. The Roman Catholic church rejects the authority of the Bible in favor of sinful men, i.e. the [[Magisterium]].
::::That's [[specious reasoning]]; The Roman Church claims God's word is evolving and is overridden by the Magisterium. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 11:32, 27 August 2020 (EDT)
:::One flock and one shepherd = Jew + Gentile = Catholic. This isn't rocket science. ''ye are not under law but under grace'', but the Judaizers kept preaching law.
:::''ye are not under law but under grace.'' Right there, you just dispensed with grace once again.
:::Law of Moses = law of God. The Christian is not under the law of God, which can only condemn and not save.
:::*''all who rely on works of the law are under a curse;''
:::*''all who rely on works of the law are under a curse;''
:::*''Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law''
:::Obedience = faith. Disobedience = lack of faith, not believing God, doubting what God says is true or calling God a liar, leaning on your own understanding.
:::The spiritual definition of disobedience is not believing God. It appears you just acknowledged that.
:::Nice try, but you can't around ''ye are under grace and not under law''. I guess you're just not among the ''ye''.
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--[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 14:37, 30 August 2020 (EDT)