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Talk:Patterns of biological evolution (view source)
Revision as of 13:02, May 25, 2007
, 13:02, May 25, 2007→Additional New Genetic Information
: But if there is a specific wording in the article that you think could be better worded, be my guest in changing it, or proposing a specific change.
: But if there is a specific wording in the article that you think could be better worded, be my guest in changing it, or proposing a specific change.
:[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:21, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
:[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:21, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
::Philip, I will agree that you can not go from the first organism to what we have today without an increase in genomic material but this view is very narrow when trying to state that the material is proportional to the complexity of the organism. Review these two websites about genomic size and organisms http://www.genomesize.com/ http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/02_01/Sizing_genomes.shtml Notice that the ''Amoeba dubia'' is the largest genome we have recorded in nature, 10^2 larger than the human genome but not a complex creature. Viral genomes tend to be on the small size but once you move into the land of living organisms you find a huge variance in sizes of genomic material of the simple life forms. In the case of the Amoeba the genomic size is large enough to accommodate the human genome plus more. So the difference between the Amoeba and the human is how the nucleotides are arranged. This is an extreme example but it does show that size really does not matter when it comes to genomic material.
::Your question about who is correct, evolutionist's call it evolution but what do the creationist’s call it? If microevolution is held in creationist's eyes as being true then why could something such as macroevolution be false (have to point out that macro and micro evolution are only terms used by creationists whereas in the biological science community there is not an official distinction)? The only real difference between macro and micro evolution is a matter of time. With the accumulation of changes from microevolution how can it be perceived that macroevolution could not happen? Not to mention when studying the skeletal structures of a broad spectrum of organisms you find amazing similarities, which coupled with genomic mapping, give you an amazingly accurate family tree. So I postulate that the only reason why macroevolution is not held in a favorable view of creationist that hold microevolution as truthful is based entirely on the amount of time that it would take to have this occur. (As a side note I noticed a posting a while back asking why the human population is not larger, the answer is that the rate of growth of the human species has increased considerably over the last 500 years due to changes in science and ways of life. When humans were hunters and gatherers the birth rate was much lower due to poor diet and times of famine. With the advent of agriculture stabilization occurred in the dietary portion of the human lifestyle which allowed for a higher birthrate. As many tech advancements happened the growth rate increased to eventually what we have today. You can look up the data of third world nations and see the birth rate and life expectancy rates are far different then those in 1st world countries, this supports the rate changes)
::It is interesting that you postulated that evolutionists claim any change as evolution, this is untrue. Whereas bacteria can gain antibiotic resistance through two different methods, by chromosomal DNA or by plasmid DNA, only the mutations in the chromosomal DNA would count as evolutionary. This is due to bacteria freely sharing plasmid DNA with each other in their colonies. The ability to share the information would be an evolutionary step but the actual sharing of information would not be, if based on the plasmid DNA transfers. However, mutation in the chromosomal DNA does allow for the progeny of the bacteria to have the same resistance from the parent bacteria. So, an example of what is and what would not be evolution. There are specific mechanisms that are classified as evolutionary, however it takes a very educated person in the biological sciences to be able to point out several of these mechanisms, and I can only list a few and all dealing with molecular systems. So the general layman does not have the background often to distinguish the differences in what constitutes as evolution and what does not, often enough most just label it all as evolution by default. A Biologist (any specialty) would not make a sweeping generalization of the mechanisms if they understood that their audience understood some of the finer points of the science. This, however, happens in many field of study.
::I will have to look through it a while to see about any changes, I will list them on the talk if I find any.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 09:02, 25 May 2007 (EDT)