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::::::But if a mutation is neutral, then surely it is below the species level, almost if not actually by definition? [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:40, 15 April 2007 (EDT)
::::::But if a mutation is neutral, then surely it is below the species level, almost if not actually by definition? [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:40, 15 April 2007 (EDT)
:::::::Probably, although there are probably ways to achieve speciation through purely neutral shifts; think changes in sexual selection which lead to a segregation of the population while leaving the net fitness unchanged. But the point is that most genetic mechanisms aren't either 'micro' or 'macro.' They tend to contribute to both. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 04:19, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
:::::::Probably, although there are probably ways to achieve speciation through purely neutral shifts; think changes in sexual selection which lead to a segregation of the population while leaving the net fitness unchanged. But '' They tend to contribute to both. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 04:19, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
::::::::Tsumetai, you are correct. Another factor is that neutral mutations do get passed on as the organism evolves, and since mutations are not considered positive or negative until the environmental stresses test them or they cause the organism to have some fatal flaw (tay sachs for example) they can lead to macro and micro changes.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 15:25, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
::::::::Tsumetai, you are correct. Another factor is that neutral mutations do get passed on as the organism evolves, and since mutations are not considered positive or negative until the environmental stresses test them or they cause the organism to have some fatal flaw (tay sachs for example) they can lead to macro and micro changes.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 15:25, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
''the point is that most genetic mechanisms aren't either 'micro' or 'macro.''': surely the point is that 'micro' and 'macro' are distinctions made by Creationists, so when Philip Rayment asks ''If even neutral mutations count as a mechanism of macroevolution, what is microevolution?'', it is up to him or others of his belief system to answer. Which should be easy for him, because he contends that there are more species (or kinds) extant today than there were on Noah's Ark, so he must accept that speciation (and hence, presumably 'macroevolution') occurs. [[User:Chrysogonus|Chrysogonus]] 17:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
== [[user:Conservative]] what the...!? ==
== [[user:Conservative]] what the...!? ==