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:::::Okay, first of all, even Conservapedia itself made it VERY clear that the constitution NEVER said separation of church and state. It DID say in the First Amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" which was meant to specifically prohibit the institution of a state religion over the country (ie, something akin to the Church of England where the President was in direct control of the Church). It was never meant to prevent religion from having a foothold at all, and if anything, John Adams made it VERY clear that removing religion entirely from a culture would produce amoral men and cause the country to fall apart. Second of all, don't you think if they truly were leftist, a significant number of Founding Fathers such as, I don't know, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, even Benjamin Franklin would have freely allied with the Jacobins and sang praises for them, and not condemn them repeatedly ESPECIALLY by the time of the September Massacres? Benjamin Franklin's anecdote of how democracy is two wolves and a lamb debating what's for supper while a republic is a lamb contesting the vote was even created specifically in response to the French Revolution's excesses. If they were truly leftist, they'd cheerlead them as much if not even moreso than Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine. Not to mention would have gone a LOT farther than JUST doing the first amendment's prevention of establishing a state religion like, I don't know, doing mass murdering pogroms against any and all religious sects a'la the French. Sure, I might have my criticisms on how the founding fathers really didn't do enough regarding defending religion (all they needed to do was specifically dedicate the constitution to Jesus Christ our lord, shouldn't even be that hard), but they most certainly weren't leftists at all (if they were, they'd torch churches like the Jacobins early into America's founding and execute anyone who holds to Christianity, or, heck, ANY religion at all, just like the French). [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 06:12, February 18, 2022 (EST)
:::::Okay, first of all, even Conservapedia itself made it VERY clear that the constitution NEVER said separation of church and state. It DID say in the First Amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" which was meant to specifically prohibit the institution of a state religion over the country (ie, something akin to the Church of England where the President was in direct control of the Church). It was never meant to prevent religion from having a foothold at all, and if anything, John Adams made it VERY clear that removing religion entirely from a culture would produce amoral men and cause the country to fall apart. Second of all, don't you think if they truly were leftist, a significant number of Founding Fathers such as, I don't know, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, even Benjamin Franklin would have freely allied with the Jacobins and sang praises for them, and not condemn them repeatedly ESPECIALLY by the time of the September Massacres? Benjamin Franklin's anecdote of how democracy is two wolves and a lamb debating what's for supper while a republic is a lamb contesting the vote was even created specifically in response to the French Revolution's excesses. If they were truly leftist, they'd cheerlead them as much if not even moreso than Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine. Not to mention would have gone a LOT farther than JUST doing the first amendment's prevention of establishing a state religion like, I don't know, doing mass murdering pogroms against any and all religious sects a'la the French. Sure, I might have my criticisms on how the founding fathers really didn't do enough regarding defending religion (all they needed to do was specifically dedicate the constitution to Jesus Christ our lord, shouldn't even be that hard), but they most certainly weren't leftists at all (if they were, they'd torch churches like the Jacobins early into America's founding and execute anyone who holds to Christianity, or, heck, ANY religion at all, just like the French). [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 06:12, February 18, 2022 (EST)
:::::::Yah yah yah, we know all that. Now let's examine, momentarily, what "separation of church and state" actually means.
:::::::It was the church, not the government, that provided meals for the elderly for hundreds of years. It was the church that provided mental health services and other social services for hundreds of years. Yes, after more than a millennium, the institutions of the church became corrupt, largely due to its coercive means and habits to fleece people out of their money to support its charitable programs, as well as a corrupt bureaucracy at the top. Separation of church and state means separation of civil administration from charitable social work. What became the church's corrupt means to coerce funding for its bureaucracy and social spending? Threats and superstitions.
:::::::So while criticism of the ''Ancien Regime'' as being corrupt and coercive may be or are valid, that is not necessarily a green light for the state to pick up the charitable or "[[social contract]]" functions originally deemed the purview of the church. That is what the "separation" or "free exercise" is supposed to mean. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 06:50, February 18, 2022 (EST)
:::OK, I'm beginning to understand why, one the one hand, some Americans call Democrats fascists, while, on the other, communists see ''all'' Americans as fascists. Also that Americans tend to use terms right and left, as well as socialism, quite differently from most other nations.--[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 17:22, February 14, 2022 (EST)
:::OK, I'm beginning to understand why, one the one hand, some Americans call Democrats fascists, while, on the other, communists see ''all'' Americans as fascists. Also that Americans tend to use terms right and left, as well as socialism, quite differently from most other nations.--[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 17:22, February 14, 2022 (EST)