Changes

{{quotebox-float|"'''The subject matter is as controversial today as it was shortly after the end of the Second World War.''' It is a topic that continues to divide Ukraine, as exemplified by a recent survey... which indicates a geographical split in attitudes toward [Nazi collaborating] [[OUN]]-[[UPA]]: the most favorable are people in the western regions and the least well disposed, those in the far east and south."}}

{{quotebox-float|"'''The subject matter is as controversial today as it was shortly after the end of the Second World War.''' It is a topic that continues to divide Ukraine, as exemplified by a recent survey... which indicates a geographical split in attitudes toward [Nazi collaborating] [[OUN]]-[[UPA]]: the most favorable are people in the western regions and the least well disposed, those in the far east and south."}}

:::"far east and south", i.e. Russian speaking areas of Donbas and Crimea. "western regions", i.e. the seat of Ukrainian nazism. See [[Oleh Tyahnybok]], excerpted:

:::"far east and south", i.e. Russian speaking areas of Donbas and Crimea. "western regions", i.e. the seat of Ukrainian nazism. See [[Oleh Tyahnybok]], excerpted:

{{quotebox-float|In October 1991 Tyahnybok became a member of the [[National Socialist]] Party [Nazi party, for short] of Ukraine.<ref name="UkrinformTyahnybok">[http://photo.ukrinform.ua/ukr/rubrics/photo.php?id=297562 Олег Тягнибок], Ukrinform</ref>  In 1998, Tyahnybok was elected to the Ukrainian Parliament.  In parliament he submitted a proposal to recognize of the fighting role of the [[Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists]] and [[Ukrainian Insurgent Army]] during [[World War II]] on behalf of [[Nazi Germany]].<ref name="Shekhovtsov">{{cite journal|doi=10.1080/09668136.2011.547696|title=The Creeping Resurgence of the Ukrainian Radical Right? The Case of the Freedom Party|year=2011|last1=Shekhovtsov|first1=Anton|journal=Europe-Asia Studies|volume=63|issue=2|pages=203–228}} (source also available [https://www.academia.edu/1209355/The_Creeping_Resurgence_of_the_Ukrainian_Radical_Right_The_Case_of_the_Freedom_Party here])</ref>  In a speech aired on television in the summer of 2004 Tyahnybok made comments such as,<ref name=KyivPost>[http://www.kyivpost.com/nation/30697 Tyahnybok: Nationalist, fearful of Russia, favors NATO], Kyiv Post (29 October 2008)</ref> "[You are the ones] that the [[Moscow]]-[[Jewish]] [[mafia]] ruling Ukraine fears most" and "They were not afraid and we should not be afraid. They took their automatic guns on their necks and went into the woods, and fought against the [[Moscow|Muscovites]], [[Germans]], [[Jews]] and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state." In April 2005, Tyahnybok co-signed an open letter to President [[Viktor Yushchenko]] calling for a parliamentary investigation into the "criminal activities of organized Jewry in Ukraine."<ref>http://web.archive.org/web/20051114152743/http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/042005Ukr_letter.shtml Ukraine Notables Sign Anti-Semitic Letter,  Anti-Semitism in Ukraine,  NCSJ, 04.20.2005</ref>}}

{{quotebox-float|In October 1991 Tyahnybok became a member of the [[National Socialist]] Party [Nazi party, for short] of Ukraine.<ref name="UkrinformTyahnybok">[http://photo.ukrinform.ua/ukr/rubrics/photo.php?id=297562 Олег Тягнибок], Ukrinform</ref>  In 1998, Tyahnybok was elected to the Ukrainian Parliament.  In parliament he submitted a proposal to recognize of the fighting role of the [[Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists]] and [[Ukrainian Insurgent Army]] during [[World War II]] on behalf of [[Nazi Germany]].<ref name="Shekhovtsov">{{cite journal|doi=10.1080/09668136.2011.547696|title=The Creeping Resurgence of the Ukrainian Radical Right? The Case of the Freedom Party|year=2011|last1=Shekhovtsov|first1=Anton|journal=Europe-Asia Studies|volume=63|issue=2|pages=203–228}} (source also available [https://www.academia.edu/1209355/The_Creeping_Resurgence_of_the_Ukrainian_Radical_Right_The_Case_of_the_Freedom_Party here])</ref>  In a speech aired on television in the summer of 2004 Tyahnybok made comments such as,<ref name=KyivPost>[http://www.kyivpost.com/nation/30697 Tyahnybok: Nationalist, fearful of Russia, favors NATO], Kyiv Post (29 October 2008)</ref> "[You are the ones] that the [[Moscow]]-[[Jewish]] [[mafia]] ruling Ukraine fears most" and "They were not afraid and we should not be afraid. They took their automatic guns on their necks and went into the woods, and fought against the [[Moscow|Muscovites]], [[Germans]], [[Jews]] and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state." In April 2005, Tyahnybok co-signed an open letter to President [[Viktor Yushchenko]] calling for a parliamentary investigation into the "criminal activities of organized Jewry in Ukraine."<ref>http://web.archive.org/web/20051114152743/http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/042005Ukr_letter.shtml Ukraine Notables Sign Anti-Semitic Letter,  Anti-Semitism in Ukraine,  NCSJ, 04.20.2005</ref>}}

:::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]} 21:50, March 24, 2022 (EDT)

:::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]} 21:50, March 24, 2022 (EDT)

:::Western Ukraine is the former Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia, from which the [[SS]] Galicia Division was formed, which committed atrocities against Jews and Polish civilians, and is [https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-in-ukraine-attend-marches-celebrating-nazi-ss-soldiers/ still honored today in parades, marches, and ceremonies] by their grandchildren. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]} 22:08, March 24, 2022 (EDT)

:::Western Ukraine is the former Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia, from which the [[SS]] Galicia Division was formed, which committed atrocities against Jews and Polish civilians, and is [https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-in-ukraine-attend-marches-celebrating-nazi-ss-soldiers/ still honored today in parades, marches, and ceremonies] by their grandchildren. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]} 22:08, March 24, 2022 (EDT)

:::In the end, we're looking at a longterm standoff and trade war, similar to post-World War II where no peace treaty ever ended the war.

:::In the end, we're looking at a longterm standoff and trade war, similar to post-World War II where no peace treaty ever ended the war.

:::The problem Russians in the Donbas have is similar to [[Poland]]'s - it has no natural boundaries or defenses against the rest of Ukraine. So a line of contact like you have in the mountainous region of northern India and occupied [[Tibet]] will be established, only harder to enforce with more population, divided families and intermarriages on both sides of the line. Unlike East Berlin (which was successfully de-nazified by Russia over 40 years), the Ukrainian Nazis in Kherson Oblast, Ukrainian minorities in the Donbas, and what's left of Mariupol, will be successfully de-nazified, no matter how long it takes. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]} 21:10, March 24, 2022 (EDT)

:::The problem Russians in the Donbas have is similar to [[Poland]]'s - it has no natural boundaries or defenses against the rest of Ukraine. So a line of contact like you have in the mountainous region of northern India and occupied [[Tibet]] will be established, only harder to enforce with more population, divided families and intermarriages on both sides of the line. Unlike East Berlin (which was successfully de-nazified by Russia over 40 years), the Ukrainian Nazis in Kherson Oblast, Ukrainian minorities in the Donbas, and what's left of Mariupol, will be successfully de-nazified, no matter how long it takes. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]} 21:10, March 24, 2022 (EDT)