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→The debate/discussion that RationalWiki's leftists/socialists lost badly inspired RationalWiki's Admin User: GeeJayK to start a draft of the article "Criticism of socialism"
Conservapedia's [[atheism ]] articles continue to receive hundreds of thousands of views each year (see: [[Conservapedia:Atheism articles statistics]]). ]]
Conservapedia's [[atheism ]] articles continue to receive hundreds of thousands of views each year (see: [[Conservapedia:Atheism articles statistics]]). ]]
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== Key points that User: Lipsen made during the debate ==
=== Socialism-lite/socialism in the UK vs. the economic policies of the conservative Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Socialists used abusive language instead of sound arguments ===
1. I said about post WWII UK that: a significant portion of the UK's manufacturing base was taken over by the government, it's tax rate was jacked up, its public sector of the economy greatly increased partly due to its labor unions donating to the Labour Party. The public sector labor unions went on strike causing mountains of trash, corpses and rats to fill the streets.
If you want to call that socialism-lite instead of full-blown socialism that's fine. But socialism doesn't have a good track record either - unless you want to make the lame, utopian argument that socialism has never really been tried (Soviet Union, Chinese socialism with Chinese characteristics, Cuba, etc.).
2. WWII ended in 1945 and the German bombing campaign commonly called the Blitz caused much damage to Britain. The website History.com [https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/marshall-plan-1#:~:text=The%20Marshall%20Plan%2C%20also%20known,Secretary%20of%20State%20George%20C. points out] that "The Marshall Plan, also known as the European Recovery Program, was a U.S. program providing aid to Western Europe following the devastation of World War II. It was enacted in 1948 and provided more than $15 billion to help finance rebuilding efforts on the continent." In the 20th century, the USA/UK had what is often called a "special relationship" and still continues to this day although it was damaged by the Iraq War, etc. So the UK received a decent size portion of the Marshall Plan money.
3. Socialism-lite/socialism had 30 years to prove its worth in the UK and it failed in the eyes of the UK public which is why Margaret Thatcher was elected in 1979.
4. Although AMG wrote that I said "Thatcherism fixed everything", I never said this. But I did point out that Margaret Thatcher privatized formerly nationalized companies and "In the 1980s, Britain's economy grew faster than any other economy - except for Spain."
5. Margaret Thatcher was in power from 1979 to 1990 and was the longest-serving British prime minister of the 20th century. Much of the British public thought she did a good job or she wouldn't have served for so long (The UK is a Western democracy with free and fair elections so Thatcher would have been thrown out before she became the longest-serving British prime minister of the 20th century).
6. When I have participated in online discussions at websites that have civil discourse or watch public figures debate, I don't see individuals calling people imbeciles. If RationalWiki contributors want to stoop to using abusive language rather than making strong arguments, RationalWiki is free to do so, but it will pay a price. It will be much harder (or impossible) to attract new contributors who make quality contributions. Lipsen (talk) 18:14, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
=== Nordic countries are capitalist and not socialist utopias. Excessive big government debt is a drag on the economy ===
I pointed out in my short recap of how socialism adversely affected the UK/Britain that the government took over some manufacturing companies. I did this because KarmaPolice's user page indicates that he is a socialist. As far as the Nordic countries, Foreignpolicy.com's article [https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/27/nordic-countries-not-socialist-denmark-norway-sweden-centrist/ Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist says: "Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias." With that being said, each country is going to have to decide how big the public sector is. I am not an anarchist who believes in no government, but more of a limited/small government proponent with local government doing a lot of the "government lifting" - except for obvious exceptions such as the military. Local governments are often more responsive to the people. In somewhat recent economic history, there are non-socialist countries that have large amounts of federal government debt which is not healthy for an economy once it gets over a certain percentage of GNP. That is one of the main reasons that I think the federal government should not get too big.
=== Socialistic policies in the UK, India and Israel failed. The notion of a government controlling wages and prices via supercomuters and governmental workers better than the people working in the actual industries/markets/niches everyday is an example of failed socialist thinking ===
KarmaPolice, I just looked at your profile and it says you are a socialist. Israel, India, and the UK all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II and it failed in each case. The reason you resorted to the illogical argumentation of the ad hominem argument by calling me a "moron" when it comes to understanding economics is that you cannot defend the failure of a system called socialism. Your notion of a government controlling wages and prices via supercomuters and governmental workers better than the people working in the actual industries/markets/niches everyday is an example of failed socialist thinking.
=== Swiss economy has lower inflation than USA under the Biden administration which had excess money printing, big government spending, anti-fossil fuel public policy and funded a foreign war in Ukraine ===
It was recently [https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/inflation-cpi#:~:text=US%20Inflation%20Rate%20Rises%20to,above%20market%20forecasts%20of%208.8%25.reported] that the annual inflation rate in the USA accelerated to 9.1% in June of 2022. Reuters [https://freopp.org/switzerland-health-system-profile-1-in-the-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-e4f513a20f19 reported] that Swiss inflation in June hits 29-year high of 3.4%. The Biden administration did a lot of money printing, a lot of federal government spending and it had very anti domestic fossil fuel policy plus it did not handle Covid-19 well. This largely explains why the USA has a higher inflation rate than Switzerland. In addition, the USA spends a lot on its military and funding the Ukrainian military during the war in Ukraine. Lipsen (talk) 14:34, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
== See also ==
== See also ==