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{{quotebox-float|"I would actually like to use my time to ask Carl a question. One thing that strikes me just listening to you talk, and I think it's true of a lot of people who I interact with, is I place a great emphasis on the nuclear threat. I live in fear that this is going to turn into a [[nuclear war]]. And my argument is that, as I said in my formal presentation, that the more successful we are, we meaning [[the West]] and [[Ukrainian]]s, the more likely it is that the Russians will use nuclear weapons.

{{quotebox-float|"I would actually like to use my time to ask Carl a question. One thing that strikes me just listening to you talk, and I think it's true of a lot of people who I interact with, is I place a great emphasis on the nuclear threat. I live in fear that this is going to turn into a [[nuclear war]]. And my argument is that, as I said in my formal presentation, that the more successful we are, we meaning [[the West]] and [[Ukrainian]]s, the more likely it is that the Russians will use nuclear weapons.

I'm surprised that you don't see that threat. That you don't worry about that. I mean, you talk about supporting the Ukrainians and whipping the Russians. And in a conventional world, you can think in an all-conventional world, you can think in those terms. But why aren't you scared like I am, that this could spin out of control and we could all get vaporized." <ref>https://youtu.be/_aNMOEQ0248</ref>}}

I'm surprised that you don't see that threat. That you don't worry about that. I mean, you talk about supporting the Ukrainians and whipping the Russians. And in a conventional world, you can think in an all-conventional world, you can think in those terms. But why aren't you scared like I am, that this could spin out of control and we could all get vaporized." <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aNMOEQ0248 The 2022 Holberg Debate w/ John Mearsheimer and Carl Bildt: Ukraine, Russia, China and the West], December 1, 2022.</ref>}}

==References==

==References==