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Talk:Main Page/Archive index/241 (view source)
Revision as of 16:52, June 27, 2023
, 16:52, June 27, 2023→Some surprising stats in this poll. Gen Z is the most pro-life generation ever. 55% believe 6 week heartbeat bills are "just right" or "too lenient"! 45% that they are too restrictive
John Stemberger, who is president of the Florida Family Policy Council and a long-time anti-abortion advocate in the state, added on Twitter that “I can tell you that I personally know every major leader in the pro-life movement in the country and not a single one of them would agree with this statement.” https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/16/desantis-trump-florida-six-week-abortion-ban-00097154
John Stemberger, who is president of the Florida Family Policy Council and a long-time anti-abortion advocate in the state, added on Twitter that “I can tell you that I personally know every major leader in the pro-life movement in the country and not a single one of them would agree with this statement.” https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/16/desantis-trump-florida-six-week-abortion-ban-00097154
[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 00:55, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 00:55, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
===Organized crime, arms smuggling, human trafficking on the rise in Poland from Ukraine===
[https://youtu.be/eDtL1dKt6vY] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 09:24, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
Support for NATO war in Ukraine declines from 62% to 42% in democratic Poland, per Ukraine propaganda source. [https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/12/7163504/] Poles cite Ukrainians' communist attitude ("everything should be free"). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:06, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:Wow, so the Ukronazis are Communists after all! This demonstrates how stupid it is to take the Comsymping attitude towards Putin-shilling, seeing Communists as allies against fascism when the very Ukronazi base are of a deluded <big><span style="color:DarkRed"><big><big>☭</big></big></span><span style="color:red">'''Communist'''</span><span style="color:DarkRed"><big><big>☭</big></big></span></big> mentality. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>(Matthew 26:52)</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:11, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::Democracy in action. [https://youtu.be/EpGOX3BY_1I] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:15, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::Whew, the Poles and Canadians are rejecting Ukrocommunazism. If only the U.S. were as sane. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>(Matthew 26:52)</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:20, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::The problem is NATO countries are not "democratic"; they are run by globalist warmongers with a controlled media. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:29, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Ah, peak socialistic fascism. Most world chaos are battles between various socialist regimes vying for ultimate power; the Obama war crimes in Libya, for instance, were an expression of globalist desire for a one-party totalitarian iron fist with no competition from rivaling Arab/African socialists. Left-wing anti-establishment types confuse the globalist order as "capitalist" and "reactionary."—[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:34, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Look at the thread above: Ciaramella, who looks like a kid on a skateboard, is now an international expert at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace. This is the same guy who started the lie that Putin ordered Trump to fire Comey. How much credibility does he (or ''The Economist'') have?[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:44, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Hold up, wasn't the Carnegie Endowment among the foundations investigated by the [[Reece Committee]]? I need to rewatch the [[Norman Dodd]] interview by G. Edward Griffin and do some more digging later. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:47, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::It has an interesting history; when suspicion fell on [[Alger Hiss]] after 1945, he was railroaded out of government, but insisted on his innocence (along with the [[liberal media]]) and was made head of the Endowment. The Dullas brothers factor into the that scandal somewhere, too. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:53, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::The Dulles brothers were Nazi collaborators, BTW. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 16:02, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::Well, yes and no. It definitely needs examination and context. And the question is directly related to the [[Gehlen Organization]]'s collaboration with the [[Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists]].
::::::::::It's a huge question impossible to thumbnail in a few sentences. For example, the Gehlen Organization became the modern German [[BND]] (intelligence agency), out which was organized the [[West German]] democratic state. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:13, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::::From what I'm reading, John Foster Dulles was a flat-out lifelong Nazi sympathizer. Allen Dulles, a depraved psychopath, had Nazi connections during his [[OSS]] years and his later firing in the wake of the [[Bay of Pigs invasion]] sparked the origins of the JFK assassination.
:::::::::::It's not surprising that liberal elitists like the Dulles brothers were evidently pro-Nazi; they were influenced by the ideas of the [[Progressive Movement]] and its elitist principles like [[eugenics]]. Ever since [[Reconstruction]], Northeastern classical liberal reformist elites turned towards a racist, cyncical direction which eventually drifted into illiberal statism. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 16:18, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::::These are questions I'm deeply involved with right now. It is very very important to pay attention to sources used before making a generalization like, "flat-out lifelong Nazi sympathizer" (those generally come from [[Kremlin]] directed communist sources during the Cold War). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:30, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::::Let's look at two parallel examples momentarily:
:::::::::::::(a) the [[CIA]] whacked [[JFK]] and blamed Russia;
:::::::::::::(b) the CIA interfered in the 2016 election and blamed Russia.
::::::::::::''Deja vu''. Now how much of this history does [[Vladimir Putin]] understand? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:35, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::::Let's clarify and carry the example a step further:
:::::::::::::(a) the CIA ended the Kennedy presidency in order to set up a [[proxy war]] with the [[Soviet Union]] in Vietnam;
:::::::::::::(b) the CIA tied the Trump presidency in knots with investigations, limiting its effectiveness in order to set up a proxy war with the [[Russian Federation]] in Ukraine.
::::::::::::Both examples redounded to the benefit of shareholders of the [[military industrial complex]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:48, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::In short, it has long been a non-governmental (in today's parlance [[NGO]]) [[deep state]] institution. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:58, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
=== Ukrainian Catholic Priest explains the situation on the ground ===
This is from some time ago, but illuminating as to what's going on:
"I do not deny that globalists try to influence Ukrainian politics in various ways. But Russia is doing the same. Russian expansion politics are not better then American globalism for us. Russian media spread disinformation about life in Ukraine, in their country, and all around the world.
This war really started in 2014 and it was started by Russia, which occupied Crimea, then provoked separatist actions in Donetsk and Luhansk regions and supported them by the Russian army. There is not any justification of Russian military intervention in our country. If they wanted to prevent any danger from U.S. or NATO, why did they attack Ukraine instead of Alaska, for example?
The Russian-Ukrainian confrontation did not start in 2014. We have a very long history of conflicts for centuries. Let us remember for example the act of genocide of our people in 1932-1933, when millions of Ukrainians died in the artificial famine.
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church also underwent several stages of liquidation and bloody persecution by the Russian Empire and the communist regime. The last of them lasted in western Ukraine from 1946 to 1989, when our Church existed in deep underground conditions.
There are many more such manifestations of Russian chauvinism. Russia brutally declares that it has a historical right to Ukrainian lands; its propaganda often sound theses that Ukrainians and Russians are one people, that the Ukrainian language is a dialect of Russian, etc.
Why does Archbishop Vigano not mention about Putin’s declaration in Munich 2008, that he considers the collapse of the Soviet Union the greatest world’s catastrophe of the 20th century? That declaration means he wants to restore the Soviet Union, to take Ukraine again under control of Russia.
I just want to show here the deep reason of Russian aggression towards Ukraine. Nobody may say that it is only confrontation between Russia and the globalist West, and Ukraine is just a battlefield.
The greatest insult to our people is the accusation of spreading Nazism. I will not refute here the Russian accusations repeated by Archbishop Viganо because it is not possible to do so within the framework of this interview. But the facts of this war show that it was Russian troops who acted like Nazis.
After the liberation from Russian occupancy of such cities as Bucha, Irpin, and Gostomel, hundreds of corpses of civilians were found there with traces of torture, the bodies of raped and killed women who they tried to burn.
On several occasions, the Russians did not allow humanitarian missions to enter Mariupol or other occupied cities to deliver food or evacuate civilians. This army, which came "to save the Russian-speaking population," almost wiped out Mariupol, a city of more than four hundred thousand people, mostly Russian-speaking.
Thanks again for your request.
Let God bless you!" https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/interview-priest-society-saint-josaphat-war-ukraine-73867 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 02:53, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:This page is for MPR content, not specious claims in support of globalist [[propaganda]]. If you can't find the appropriate article page to post this kind of [[spam]], try the [[Conservapedia:Community Portal]]. Thank you. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 03:03, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::Reasonably and amicably debating over the subject matter(s) covered on MPR appears appropriate to me. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>(Matthew 26:52)</sup>]]''''' Monday, 13:59, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::We've knocked down every single item listed in this letter on this talk page several times already, like Putin "considers the collapse of the Soviet Union the greatest world’s catastrophe of the 20th century" which refers to the fact that ethnic Russians are denied citizenship and voting rights in the "democratic" [[Baltic States]], or that [https://youtu.be/aHWHqj8g7Bk Russians were denied pensions in Ukraine], etc. etc. This quote is like Trump saying "very fine people", repeatedly used out of context. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:20, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::Alright then, I have no objections if you are inclined to place collapse templates on NishantXavier's quote spamming for the purpose of efficiently saving space here. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:30, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::I don't want to censor or squash debate at all; these discussions belong on the appropriate page in its appropriate place. Like User: Cons, it just gets tiring debunking the same lies over and over again with people willingly [[brainwash]]ed by MSM Nazi propaganda who refuse to listen or apply critical thinking skills. They just haven't figured out that repeating the same lie 100 times won't make it anymore true now or 100 years from now. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:35, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
It was posted to document certain facts like the destruction of Mariupol, a town of 400,000 people, predominantly Russian speaking, which refutes the Russian lie that they want to "save Russian speakers". It's also from an Eastern Catholic Ukrainian Priest on the ground, so no one can say it is western propaganda from people far away. But ok. I will post smaller excerpts going forward, containing directly the relevant points. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 03:49, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:Well, it's all BS that has been picked apart many times, Mariupol is being rebuilt, the residents there are Russian, and they are grateful for Russian liberation after 8 years of Azov Nazi terrorism. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:19, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFhs5K73YAU&t=2s Residents of Mariupol tell their stories of Ukrainian war crimes and murder in the immediate aftermath of the battle.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 08:59, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::Okay, this video by Dougan you linked is quite eye-opening; so the recipients testify that the Russian Army provides aid to the city's residents while Ukrainians not only refuse to help, but shoot at them. And [https://www.nbcnews.com/video/russian-humanitarian-aid-distributed-in-besieged-mariupol-137117765548 even liberal NBC reported on this, so it seems.] —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>(Matthew 26:52)</sup>]]''''' Monday, 13:55, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::The video earned Dougan a place on the [[Nazi kill list]], which is why other reporters don't report the same thing. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:12, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::I see... alright then, you're so far doing well in convincing me that the Ukronazi threat justifies Putinism. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>(Matthew 26:52)</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:15, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Like my new sig? —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:28, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Yah, looks good. And let me thank you for having the courage to take a moral stand publicly. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:31, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::I intend to stand for what's morally right even when it's not popular. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:35, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::Nobody's asking you to be a "Putin shill" or "Pro-Putin"; just focus on the truth of the [[Maidan regime]] and the lies of [[NATO]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:41, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::Fair enough; just so you know, I still disagree with your general assessment that all Putin criticism is "Nazi propaganda," though I concur on the need to expose the evils of globalist Ukronazism. Say, we should be the first to start an official "Smash Ukrofascism" campaign. After all, where's [[Antifa]] when you actually need them? —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 15:44, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::Antifa's aligned with [[LGBT]] and the child mutilation movement, per latest reports. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:50, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::Note: "Nazi propaganda" is used in the same context that "Putin propaganda" is used, fighting fire with fire.
::::::::::To apply Nishant's own stated logic, anti-"Neo-Stalinists" therefore must be "Neo-Nazis". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:04, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::::Antifa supports child mutilation? What a surprise; those fascist goons clearly have no end to their depravity. The militant wing of the Democratic Party never removed the hood and merely replaced it with a new one, still going about on its business assaulting civilians and inciting murder.
:::::::::::Okay, I see your point now about fighting fire with fire. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Monday, 16:08, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
===Trump whistleblower is back===
As I've said many times, [[Trump-Russia]] and the [[Ukraine war]] are inextricably linked. [[Eric Ciaramella]], the whistleblower in Trump's first impeachment, is back. He's also the same guy who told Ukrainian officials in January 2016 to lay off investigating [[Hunter Biden]] and instructed them to open an investigation on [[Paul Manafort]]. Ukraine passed bogus allegations of "Russia collusion" to [[Ali Chalupa]] of the [[DNC]], who passed it to Comey's FBI, and later [[Robert Mueller]] (the allegations were baseless, and Mueller actually nailed Manafort on tax charges from 2006).
The [[neo-fascist]] rag ''The Economist'' reports: [https://archive.is/rEASI#selection-965.145-1001.215]
[[File:Chalupa-ciaramella.jpg|right|350px|thumb|Democrat operative Alexandra Chalupa (left) Deep State informant Eric Ciaramella (right).[https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/10/huge-cia-whistleblower-eric-cairamella-worked-with-dnc-operative-alexandra-chalupa-in-creation-of-trump-russia-collusion-hoax/] ]]
{{quotebox-float|"Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a think-tank in Washington, argues that Western leaders should set out plans for Ukraine’s reconstruction and integration with the West, not least through security arrangements enshrined in law. Hitherto some Western leaders thought such matters would best be left until after a cessation of hostilities; but Mr Ciaramella argues they would help bring the fighting to an end by denying Mr Putin’s hope of winning a drawn-out conflict.
The security “assurances” given to Ukraine by America, Britain and Russia itself in the 1994 [[Budapest memorandum]], in return for its agreeing to the removal of Soviet-era nuclear weapons from its soil, proved hollow. Ukraine and eastern European friends argue that only membership of the nato alliance—with Article 5 enshrining the mutual-defence commitment that an attack on one is an attack on all—can protect Ukraine from further attack. For all the devastation he has visited on Ukraine, Mr Putin has been careful not to strike at nato countries....
Mr Ciaramella sets out a five-point proposal to give Ukraine “less than Article 5 but more than the Budapest Memorandum”. This includes legally codified commitments to help-Ukraine defend itself, inspired in part by those that America gives to Israel and Taiwan, to ensure they endure regardless of who is in power in America and Europe. He also advocates multi-year commitments to arm Ukraine; support to rebuild Ukraine’s arms industry; mechanisms for political consultation like nato’s Article 4; and a clear path to eu membership. All this would not be an alternative to nato membership, but a bridge towards it. The goal, much like those hoped-for territorial gains in Ukraine’s counter-offensive, would be to demonstrate to Russia that there is nothing to be gained by prolonging the war.}}
So after these war criminals got 350,000 Ukrainians killed for nothing, they're looking for a face-saving way to bail. The problem is, Russia won't agree to any of it, and the US-backed [[Kyiv regime]] won't survive.
:[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:17, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
Note: "the 1994 Budapest memorandum, in return for its agreeing to the removal of Soviet-era nuclear weapons from its soil" is correct, verses the last propaganda BS Nishant posted, "Ukraine give up its nuclear arsenal". That's why "reading comprehension" is graded differently from simply having the ability to read. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:25, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
One further note: the Budapest memorandum "proved hollow" means the US violated the agreement by not holding up its end of the bargain. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 06:12, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
=== Ukraine gains in its counter offensive ===
When celebrating a Prayer Breakfast around Feb 24, 2023, the 1 year Anniversary of the War, Prez. Zelensky said he hoped to celebrate one on Feb 24, 2024 again this time commemorating the Victory in the War. There is a significant possibility the War will end within a year.
See the Gains in the Counter-Offensive, 2 of which (Blahodatne and Neskuchne) are admitted by the Kremlin's supporters themselves:
"In the first reported gains of its much-anticipated counteroffensive, Kyiv says its forces have reclaimed territory from Russia.
Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar on Monday posted a message on Telegram saying that Ukraine's flag was again flying over the village of Storozheve.
Unverified videos showed troops hoisting the Ukrainian flag in the village of Blahodatne in the Donetsk region and their unit's flag in the adjacent village of Neskuchne.
Ukraine also said its troops had made advances in Makarivka, but some prominent Russian military bloggers suggested that while Ukrainian forces took Blahodatne and Neskuchne, the fight for Makarivka was going on." https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-updates-kyiv-claims-first-counteroffensive-gains/a-65886963 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 22:21, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
::'''Update:''' ''[https://southfront.org/real-scale-of-ukrainian-success-during-counteroffensive-revealed/ Prior to the start of the Russian special military operation in Ukraine Novodonetskoe was populated by just 327 people, Makarovka by 258, Blagodatnoe by 1097, Storojevoe by 96, Neskuchnoe by 644, Lokbovoe by 99 and Novodarovka had no more than 51 people living in it. Kiev forces paid a heavy price to capture these small villages. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, around 10,000 have been killed or wounded since the start of the counteroffensive. Many of the casualties were trained by NATO in bases outside Ukraine.]''
:[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 11:41, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
:You're late. They've already been pushed back. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 22:41, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:[https://youtu.be/0AIeK6ukmxw $400 Russian drones taking out $5 million Bradley Fighting Vehicles.] Like the idiots in the [[Pentagon]] didn't know this would or could happen years ago? or the idiots in Congress and the Biden regime didn't know this when they appropriatated $116 billion? It's scandalous (or at least it would be a scandal anywhere else in the world, including Russia. But not in the US). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 23:52, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::The above posting from ''Deutsche Welle'' is a case study in how [[Kyiv]] manipulates the time cycle in news reporting. 24-36 hours ago the Russians stepped back from forward positions in 3 villages with a population of about 175 people each. They still are about 30km north of the Surovikin Line, the first major defensive fortification (they basically are inviting NATO/Ukraine into the kill zone). The Ukies advanced. In that first 12 hour period, they took pictures of flag raising over these evacuated villages and released photos to international media like DW.
:::In the following 24 hours, fighting erupted in the kill zone where NATO/Ukraine was either annihilated, retreated, or taken prisoner. Meanwhile, ''Deutsche Welle'' goes to press declaring victory. The story is repeated worldwide by globalist media for the next 72 hours while the defeat is never reported. Wash. Rinse Repeat. Why I need to go into detail on this after the last 15 months is a mystery to me.
:::Now, Why does Ukraine need "published" victories? Cause at the upcoming July 11 NATO meeting, Zelensky and company have been strictly informed, they need captured territory for continued NATO aid. Additionally, the Russians aren't stupid - they read Western newspapers and media, as well. They understand the schedule and deadlines Zelensky faces if he wants to keep his job as NATO puppet [[dictator]]. So spare yourself the embarrassment before you get all excited about alleged Ukrainian victories. The fact the [[fake news]] media will report it as such come July 9, 10, 11, etc., is a foregone conclusion. But too many people now (including members of Congress and the press) see and understand the game being played. And come the first week of July, Russia will be ready to crush like a bug any effort to steal their headlines. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 01:31, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:Bottomline: Ukraine/Milley and the Pentagon have lost thousands of Ukrainian lives battling for five farmhouses in No Man's Land. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 11:47, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
===New weapon introduced in Ukraine===
Both sides have introduced, for the first time into combat, a new weapon. As of now it appears the Russian version is somewhat more advanced.
The new weapon is essentially a mine-laying rocket launcher that lays down mines ''behind'' an advancing force, so if or when they attempt to retreat, they enter a mine field that wasn't there when they advanced. In the Russian version, it's launched on a GRAD or Multiple Rocket Launching System (MLRS) with each rocket laying down 600 mines (the mines also have a self-destruct timer which then allows the defending force to advance later through the mine field.) As of this moment, the Russians being on the defensive, have the advantage in allowing the attacking force to enter into the kill zone, than locking them in so they can't retreat. NATO/Ukraine hasn't been able to get close enough to Russian lines to lay down their version, which wouldn't do much good anyway in a breakthrough cause they'd have to kill everyone, including reinforcements, at the breakthrough point rather than allow them to retreat. And then they'd have to wait (assuming NATO's version has a self-destruct timer) to advance. The Russian version also has an automated receptor that can be keyed to self destruct (in electronic warfare, you'd have to build a system that can hack into the radio frequency to get it to self-destruct so you can retreat; when that happens, all Russia needs to do is eliminate the radio receptor and go back soley to the timer). So the weapon really is more for a defensive posture than offensive. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 22:50, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
One more point: the purpose of probing attacks and an advance is to find a breakthrough point; when the breakthrough occurs on a line, the attacking force then funnels through hordes of reinforcements to reek havoc behind enemy lines. The new system lays down instantly a new minefield for reinforcements to traverse before reaching the breakthrough point, slowing the advance. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 23:11, June 12, 2023 (EDT)
:Not going to debate with you on this subject any longer, as you don't have ears to hear. Will post facts and relevant stats and leave it at that. Let the reader judge. Time will tell which side was right. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 07:43, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
::You got that one right. I don't have ears to hear propaganda. Well, yes I have ears to hear and recognized it, but not a brain to absorb it and make it part of my being. Many years ago I asked the Lord for the gift of discernment (per 1 Cor 12) and he was true to his word in granting the gift. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:04, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
::[https://www.academia.edu/3378079/The_Politics_of_World_War_II_in_Contemporary_Ukraine The Politics of World War II in Contemporary Ukraine], IVAN KATCHANOVSKI, University of Ottawa
:::''This study examines the role of political factors in attitudes toward World War II in contemporary Ukraine. The research question is which factors determine public views of the principal warring sides and their leaders in Ukraine. The analysis of the 2012 Kyiv International Institute of Sociology survey shows that regional values, political party preferences, ethnicity, language, and age have significant effects on views of the [[Red Army]] and the [[Ukrainian Insurgent Army]] (UPA) during the war and attitudes toward the wartime activities of [[Joseph Stalin]] and [[Roman Shukhevych]].''
::Do some background reading before you run off half-cocked with Nazi talking points again. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:49, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:5 minute video report on [https://youtu.be/E2rRSqfpTvs the Russian "Agriculture" MLRS mine laying system] that defeated half the NATO force that took NATO a full year to train and assemble in less than 1 week (and NATO's lame efforts to catch up on Russian technology and strategic planning). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:00, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:Now we understand more about US/NATO mine laying equipment - [https://www.bitchute.com/video/3SfiBo0jaBzT/ they use robots]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:53, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
=== Astonishing Stats from the EU on Russia ===
[[File:Leopard 2.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[https://www.businessinsider.com/us-says-russia-using-chips-from-dishwashers-in-tanks-sanctions-2022-5#] ]]
"Q: Are the sanctions against Russia working?
A: Actually, the word "sanctions" does not exist in any European treaties. The phrase used is "restrictive measures". We restrict some actions, like buying Russian gas and selling Russia the electronics it needs to produce arms. That's the least we could have done. We say: "You are attacking Ukraine, so we don't want to buy your oil and gas because with that money you pay for the war. You are producing arms, so we won't sell you the electronics that you need to do that. I don't want to give you the spare parts you need for your civilian planes." Seventy-five per cent of Russia's civilian air fleet cannot fly because there are no spare parts. Ninety per cent of Russia's production of cars has stopped." [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 07:40, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
From: https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/straits-times-peace-not-no-war-and-derisking-has-risks-josep-borrell_en [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 07:41, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:Astonishing? Where are the astonishing facts? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:49, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
[https://www.bitchute.com/video/qUcZw9dH67Wg/ AMUSED RUSSIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER SAYS IT'S NOT POSSIBLE FOR RUSSIA TO REUSE CHIPS FROM WASHERS]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:15, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
Two things should be understood about Russia:
:The Russian military ''does not'' use:
::(a) [[depleted uranium]];
::(b) cluster bombs.
If and when future arms control negotiations are ever agreed upon to take place, after the final partition of Ukraine and the disposition of NATO and European security arrangements are made, the Russians are in a fairly strong position to make their position known and clear what they think of the ethical considerations about war fighting in the [[Pentagon]] have been for the past 75 years. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 20:02, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:In the last two sentences: "Seventy-five per cent of Russia's civilian air fleet cannot fly because there are no spare parts. Ninety per cent of Russia's production of cars has stopped." Russia is destroying its own country/economy in order to wage this unjust War. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 22:54, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
::Oh, I get it. This is the same source that said Russia had to cannibalize washing machines for their $400 drones that destroyed the $9 million German [[Leopard 2]] tanks. Ok. Thanks for clarifying that. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 23:50, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
===Updates===
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp6pSHao23E Multiple Ukrainian Tank Columns ANNIHILATED]
*[https://youtu.be/jEquz056nsw NAZI'S VOW TO KILL EVERYONE.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:23, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
::From a [[psyop]] perspective, it would have been easier to respect Russian armed forces from the beginning, rather than to force them to earn that respect again, and teach a lesson for the next 80 years.
::From a political perspective, as you can read anywhere, NATO has clearly stated that their objective, whatever the outcome, is to have negotiations after the end of summer. But think again momentarily, what if Russia isn't in the mood to negotiate? Do you honestly believe NATO and the West can dictate where and when to have negotiations? That's simply more disrespect. Are Western populations ready to make the same kind of privations their grandparents and great-grandparents endured in WWII, or that the Russian population is enduring now and has endured since 2014?
::At some point, surviving Western Nazis and globalists, and their subservient [[serf]] populations, will have to humbly face the victors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:41, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:*The Nazis vow to kill everyone means they will follow NATO's main attacking forces in Zaporozhe and send in an ''[[Einsatzgruppen]]'' of [[Azov battalion|Azov]] types behind them to murder anyone who voted in the referendum to join Russia. The [[Kyiv regime]] vowed as much a year ago. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:54, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/aeJVwczkNcsC/ WOMAN DESCRIBES SECRET CHAT WHERE AFU ORDERED TO KILL ALL RUSSIAN 'COLLABORATORS' IN NEW TOWNS]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:12, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/wfnZFezs0qzK/ Ukrainian sniper sentenced to 23 years for murdering civilian in Mariupol in March 2022]. [[Operation Denazification]] is proceeding as planned. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:13, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/4CxhgkEJW5fa/ LPR INVESTIGATORS ARE FINDING MANY GRAVES OF WESTERN MERCENARIES - ONE AMERICAN FROM SAN FRANCISCO]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:21, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
*Ukrainian Nazis doused well known Ukrainian politician [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Chornovil Taras Chornovol] with urine and paint then dumped into dumpster. [https://www.bitchute.com/video/xgv5mB3e6AZB/] These are just the low-level Nazi street thugs still undergoing brainwashing. They haven't graduated to full time employment in an official government unit of paid Nazi killers. They probably got his home address off the [[Myrotvorets]] kill list. Welcome to Zelensky's Ukraine, this outpost of European values and American democracy. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:37, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/nPeSQOp3DKj5/ TEEN IS KNOCKED OUT AND KIDNAPPED FOR CANNONFODDER BY RUTHLESS UKRAINIAN COMMISSARS]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 18:16, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/QCSCOF4pyEEi/ MEMORIAL TO SOLDIERS WHO DEFEATED HITLER AND NAZISM DEMOLISHED IN LVOV]. (Basically, this could not be done without financial aid from you and US taxpayers, as the Kyiv regime is broke. It is you the US taxpayer baring 100% of the cost to employ Ukrainian government workers). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 18:18, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://youtu.be/RWxdTZyOPzI Axmat arrives in Belgorod to hunt NATO/LGBT forces]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:21, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:*Love the soundtrack from that video, it uses the same ostinato as the [[Star Wars]] music, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IX1jSVmaAs&t=155s borrowed from Gustav Holst's 'Mars, the god of war']. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:26, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/oyM6xnt8fKio/ RUSSIAN DEEPFAKE TROLLS WORLD LEADERS]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:29, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
*Update: Ukrainian Nazi General [[Budanov]] contacted via [[Ouija board]] from [[Bandera]] headquarters in hell. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:49, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/9VsujagFbfgF/ Double-Headed Russian Eagle Coin From 1739 Is Found At Bottom of Kakhovka Reservoir]. Ukrainians on social media are outraged and can't figure out why the coin from 1739 doesn't have the Ukrainian Trident symbol on it. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 20:00, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/rf6KT6PHkGxV/ UKRAINIAN CONGA LINE OF DESTROYED ARMOR IS PULLED BACK TO THE CHOP SHOP]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:47, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/AzYHg6rT32ir/ Ukrainian Civilians Continue Rebelling Against Commissars Kidnapping Men From The Street]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:51, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/eBhIwdp5yLNu/ MORE CANNONFODDER KIDNAPPED ON THE STREETS OF UKRAINE INTO NONDESCRIPT VAN]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 00:17, June 17, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/t83R0xSe2KjY/ Russia knows how to harness its Muslims. They don't pay [[ISIS]] proxies under the table like the US does]. Do you think Milley and the idiots will take the bait and do an artillery strike on their headquarters from Ukraine? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:58, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/waVFdpBoGTwr/ HERE'S THE NEXT GENERATION OF U.S. MILITARY RECRUITS - SCARY STUFF]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:35, June 17, 2023 (EDT)
*70 videos of the [https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/06/16/dreizin-brain-candy-explosion-biggest-video-dump-in-history/ Ukraine turkey shoot of NATO equipment] in the past 4 days; also [https://youtu.be/7YVvUI5HG6w Russians With Attitude] run a pretty good 30 minute video expose in the background to accompany their voice over. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:05, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
*Only 3 of 120 Ukrainian attackers in an assault unit on Russian defenses survived. Why do Zelensky, Biden, and other nazi supporters continue to send soldiers into such meaningless slaughter? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:08, June 19, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/a6tHDp2kHwGX/ Commissar hit in the face with a rock.] How long does a rational person believe this society can endure the fascist Zelensky regime? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:48, June 20, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/tOVR1MbxhMHV/ Antique T-72 knocks out a mighty Leopard with a barrel shot]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:57, June 20, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/5NIfI9wRPmbU/ AMERICAN "MERCENARIES" (SPECIAL FORCES) OPERATING IN UKRAINE]. Reminder: They are not protected by the [[Geneva Convention]] or any international rules of war. They are paid killers awaiting the fate of all paid killers. In [[Donbas]] in particular, the term "mercenary" probably has a ring to it below that of "pedophile." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:02, June 20, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/NkzYZxfdIpM3/ THIS NEW ZELENSKY SONG IS TOPPING THE CHARTS]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 03:55, June 21, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://www.bitchute.com/video/kLWG2e92aWI2/ BEWARE: PSYCHO-FUHRER IS GOING ALL IN ON IMMINENT ZNPP TERROR ATTACK]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 18:58, June 22, 2023 (EDT)
*[https://youtu.be/SDWc1LbJ8Vo Rostov residence clap and cheer and chant "Wagner! Wanger"" as Prigozhin departs.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:48, June 24, 2023 (EDT)
=== Russia has lost 215,000 Soldiers. The effects of this will soon be evident on the battlefield ===
[[File:Biden and neo-nazis.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Biden shaking hands with Ukrainian Neo-Nazi [[Oleh Tyanhbok]].]]
"He only earns his freedom and his life who takes them every day by storm."
Goethe
Total combat losses of the enemy from February 24, 2022 to June 13, 2023: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1668573934676058112 [Details in link] Russia cannot win this War. The Ukrainian people need their land so they will not stop fighting for it. Sweden will become a NATO member by Vilnius in July, and NATO nations have pledged to support Ukraine for as long as it takes. Russia will retreat sooner or later. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 23:44, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:[https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng From an anti-Russian site that works with the BBC.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 23:55, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:Basically, if the history of the past 15 months is any guide, what the Ukrainian MOD says about Russia generally are the facts about Ukraine. 200k+ dead Ukrainians now could be called a consensus figure (some still hold it as low as 135k-150k, Bobby Kennedy recently put it at 350k). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 00:00, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:And this part, "The Ukrainian people need their land", what a joke. Their land won't do them any good once US deployed [[depleted uranium]] shells contaminate it for the next 240,000 years. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 00:07, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:[https://rumble.com/vwytea-u.s.-backed-svobodas-oleh-tyahnybok-overthrows-ukrainian-government.html Watch this 2 minute video.] You should seriously get off this Biden/Neo-Nazi hobby horse you've been riding. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 01:01, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::"Biden/Neo-Nazi" Just use the term [[Bidenazi]]! —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Wednesday, 12:03, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:Hey, watch [https://rumble.com/v2tbajg-tucker-carlson-on-ukraines-destruction-of-the-dam-as-the-war-escalates-and-.html Tucker Calrson do a perfect pantomime of what you sound like.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 10:57, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
"Biden shaking hands with Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Oleh Tyanhbok. I'm not sure how the surname is supposed to to be pronounced, so I'll just go with "Trannybok." The Ukronazis ''are'' promoting homosexualism, after all. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Wednesday, 15:35, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:hint: there is no letter "H" in the Russian alphabet (the letter "H" is referred to as an "aspiration" by linguists, of which there are no other "aspirations" in the English alphabet. Some even call it a vowel). The Ukrainian language changed the Cyrilic or Greek "gamma" or "G" in "Oleg" to an "H" just to be different, cause "G" is often used by Russian translators instead of "H". Hence you have the transliterations "Lugansk" and "Luhansk", the first being the Ukrainian pronunciation and the second the Russian). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:59, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:Corrrection: there is a letter "H" in Russian; it is however the Greek "Nu" or English "N" sound. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:02, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:'''IOWs''', if you change "Oleh" to "Oleg", it proves you are Putin stooge to Ukrainian Nazis. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:11, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::Another example: if you pronounce "Vladimir" as "Vladimir" correctly, you are Putin stooge; however if you use the somewhat retarded pronunciation and spelling of "Volodymyr" (where your mouth and lips form up like you're going to puke), then you are a Nazi kinsman. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:51, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
=== NATO Chief offers Vilnius Summit Preview at the White House: NATO is stronger and more focused and united than ever before ===
[[File:Stoltenberg LGBT.PNG|right|250px|thumb|NATO chief warlord and LGBT activist [[Jens Stoltenberg]] (center).]]
With the Accession of Finland and Sweden into the Alliance - an Alliance of almost all Christian and Christian-majority countries, btw, with minority outliers like Turkey etc - NATO undoubtedly becomes the single most Powerful Alliance that has ever existed on Earth.
Vilnius, Lithuania in July looks set to be the place where Sweden will become NATO member 32. Below, Stoltenberg outlines reasons how appeasing Russia would embolden China: "NATO chief offers Vilnius summit preview at White House
Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg vowed to ‘sustain and step up’ support for Ukraine as it faces Russian invasion.
13 Jun 2023
Outgoing NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg has met with top United States officials at the White House, offering a preview of topics for an upcoming alliance summit in Vilnius, Lithuania.
Stoltenberg, who is set to step down as secretary-general in September, said the NATO alliance would work “to sustain and step up support for Ukraine” and “further strengthen our deterrence on defence” at the Vilnius meeting.
He also underscored the need to send a strong message to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has championed his country’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine since its launch in February 2022.
“It was not only an attack on Ukraine but also on our core values and on free people everywhere,” Stoltenberg said on Tuesday as he sat across from US President Joe Biden.
“And therefore President Putin must not win this war because that will not only be a tragedy for Ukrainians but also make the world more dangerous. It will send a message to authoritarian leaders all over the world, also in China, that when they use military force, they get what they want.”
Other priorities for the Vilnius summit, set for July 11 and 12, include a stronger partnership with countries in the Indo-Pacific region. In his comments on Tuesday, Stoltenberg also said he would push NATO allies to fulfil a 2006 pledge to commit two percent of their gross domestic products (GDPs) to defence spending — a pledge that many of the 31 member nations have fallen short of in the years since."
From: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/13/nato-chief-offers-vilnius-summit-preview-at-white-house [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 04:24, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
"Yet even if we all agree that NATO is not a humanitarian relief agency: if we can help, as in the case of the earthquake in Pakistan, should we say “no”? And if the African Union asks us for help – not for boots on the ground, to be sure, but for logistical support – can we tell them that we are too busy elsewhere? In my view, this would have been the wrong answer. Our security policy is based on interests and on values. And this means that we need to help when we can, where we can. Helping the people of Afghanistan to shed the Taliban’s yoke, or helping the African Union to be more effective in looking after its own continent – both are investments in a more stable and just global order. And that means they both are investments in our own long-term security.
Allow me, at this point, to say a few more words about the interrelationship between values and interests. The transatlantic community is a community based on the Judaeo-Christian Humanist tradition. And I am certainly not the first to observe that much of what NATO is doing these days is to engage in regions of predominantly Muslim belief. In Bosnia, and later in Kosovo, NATO used force to protect innocent civilians most of whom were Muslims. And NATO’s largest military operation today takes place in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Not surprisingly, perhaps, some observers, Christians and Muslims alike, have questioned NATO’s motivation. Is NATO’s agenda an attempt to impose distinct Western values on non-Western societies? Are we trying to re-shape the world in our image?
Ladies and gentlemen, nothing could be further from the truth. Yes, NATO is an association of Western countries. Yes, with the exception of secular Muslim Turkey, NATO is predominantly an Alliance of Christian countries. Each December, the NATO compound here in Brussels is illuminated by a huge Christmas tree. But the values that NATO stands for are not uniquely Christian. The values that we promote and defend through our engagement are universal values. The right of women to go to school is a universal right. The right to choose your own religion, and not having to fear the death penalty for doing so, is a universal right. The right to elect your democratic government in a free and fair election is a universal right.
These are the values we are defending, from the Balkans to Afghanistan. They are non-negotiable. But they are neither uniquely Western, nor are they uniquely Christian. Indeed, I believe that countries from all parts of the globe, and from all major religions, should be able to agree on them. For they are the true foundation for mankind’s survival in the 21st century." https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2007/s070301a-e.html [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 04:28, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:Gay marriage is not a God-given right, contrary to the gospel according to NATO.
:[https://www.bitchute.com/video/KuW6m76CA9pv/ A world without Russia is not worth living in]. Think about that before you continue with your nuclear war mongering. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:31, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:"NATO is stronger and more focused and united than ever before". HA! [https://en.rua.gr/2023/06/13/france-wants-to-join-brics/# France wants to join BRICS.] They'll never do it as long as they are members of NATO and have Russia sanctions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:35, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:NATO member Germany: "[https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1668211737181696000 God is queer]". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 04:46, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
NATO, while not perfect, is based on the Judeo-Christian Tradition of Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights. I'll take my chances with that rather than with Commie countries like China and North Korea (now supporting Russia), Islamist countries like Iran, and neo-Stalinist leaders like Thug Putin. NATO should welcome Asian countries like Japan, South Korea, India, and Indo-Pacific countries like Australia and New Zealand immediately. That would send a strong message to the Global South that all nations everywhere are welcome in this Free Alliance. That's what is going to happen eventually https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/06/06/us-india-inclusion-nato/ [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 05:15, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
And the LGBT thing is why I support De Santis. With Biden, or even Trump, you'll have LGBT. With DE Santis, you won't. NATO always follows America's lead. That's why De Santis 2024 is so important. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 05:17, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:NATO is run by, and for the benefit of, corrupt pedophile oligarchs. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 10:45, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:Watch this video. You'll see [https://www.bitchute.com/video/KuW6m76CA9pv/ the spirit of Christian Russia that defeated Soviet Communism from within] despite persecution and trials. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 10:49, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::Yah looks like more [[Putin propaganda]] - preaching the gospel of [[Jesus Christ]] in ancient song. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 11:06, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::Sooner of later you will realize the War in Ukraine is a Civil War between Eastern and the hollowed shell of Western [[Christianity]], instigated by global atheists to destroy both once and for all. Even the God-fearing, non-terrorist Muslims side with the Christians. Here in North America and Canada, it is the Muslims who are the parental activists with the cahoonies to stand up to the [[transgender]] and [[LGBT]] movement. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 11:17, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::Hopefully those Muslims will ultimately see the real truth and light, coming to a state of repentance and conversion before it's too late. Countless masses these days incline in their hearts towards righteousness but have been misguided their whole lives. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Wednesday, 12:03, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:"NATO, while not perfect, is based on the Judeo-Christian Tradition-" No. The Jewish values of the Bible are incompatible with globalism, period. God never sanctified a United Nations between Israel and abominable heathen tribes. While the geopolitical outlook today is vastly different from Old Testament times, as no literal country today are God's chosen people (<s>sorry</s> Christian Zionists, but literal Israel isn't very relevant in biblical eschatology), the concept of uniting varying nations under an ecumenical, syncretized world order is the agenda of Satan, not of God. —[[User:LT|<code><span style="background:#FF8181">'''LT'''</span></code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|<sup>Smash Ukrofascism!</sup>]]''''' Wednesday, 12:07, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::Stoltenberg said it himself, the "Judaeo-Christian [[Humanist]] tradition," "God is queer." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 12:59, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
=== Ambitious Agenda for NATO's Vilnius Summit ===
I predict Sweden will become NATO member #32 within the year, and probably at the Vilnius Summit in July. The Path is then open for Ukraine to become NATO member #33. When? I don't know. It will be after the War ends. It could be late next year, or maybe in 2025.
"At this moment, while Ukraine is still in a full-fledged war, the Alliance will be reluctant to open any negotiation process in order to avoid being directly dragged into a military conflict with Russia. At the same time, Kyiv and its partners among NATO allies continue communicating on the formula for a clear path to “bring Ukraine’s accession to the Alliance closer“.
In Kyiv, there is no illusion that Ukraine would obtain membership before the Russian-Ukraininan war is over, yet the Vilnius declaration should explicitly pave the way for potential membership. If NATO members fall short of delivering a clear signal in this regard, top-level Ukrainian officials may refrain from participation in the summit.
Allies still have no agreed approach to what this formula might entail. For example, a statement from 19 parliamentary foreign affairs committee chairs of NATO members called for “a clear path for Ukrainian accession to NATO and clear and strong security guarantees for Ukraine.” From: https://visegradinsight.eu/vilnius-nato-summit-is-an-ambitious-agenda-for-ukraine-possible/ While there's still work to be done, NATO will get there in the end, as it did with Finland, and it's doing with Sweden. Turkey will probably allow Sweden in in exchange for US F-16s. The Turks know when to bargain, as they did on Finland and are doing now, but they also know when, for the Common Good of the Alliance, to come to consensus, as they did on Finland. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 08:00, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
===How it will play out after the Vilnius summit===
As of now it appears the NATO representatives in Vilnius on July 11 will have to admit to themselves that Ukraine lost. To keep Kyiv from being overrun by Russia and installation of a Russia puppet regime, they will form a NATO "coalition of the willing" led by Poland and the [[Baltic States]] to send troops into Ukraine (basically, the Kyiv and [[Lviv]] regions}. It is almost a virtual certainty that they will be attacked by Russia once they cross into Ukraine territory, and Russia will not allow these NATO forces to establish air superiority over any portion of Ukraine from NATO airbases in Poland.
In any case however, this involves more direct active belligerents in the conflict, with risk of the battlefields spreading outside Ukraine, to Belarus, Poland, [[Transnistria]] ([[Moldova]]) or [[Serbia]]/[[Kosovo]] and beyond. 20:18, June 14, 2023 (EDT)[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup>
Update on Vilnius summit: Biden squashed Stoltenberg's proposal to expedite Ukraine into NATO. Biden and Blinken want to freeze the Ukraine conflict and focus on war with China, now that they depleted US and NATO weapons stockpiles. However, European NATO allies aren't on board with war with China, or the US effort to drag them into that conflict with new Japan NATO office (the US can't go it alone against Russian and China). The NATO alliance may not survive the US disastrous leadership of it, ever since [[Victoria Nuland]] said "F the EU" when Ambassador Geoffrey Pyke asked Nuland shouldn't the NATO allies be consulted before the Obama regime unilaterally overthrew the Ukrainian democratically-elected government in 2014. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:21, June 19, 2023 (EDT)
=== NATO Office likely in Japan by 2024 ===
"Earlier this year, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg announced that the organization was considering the opening of a liaison office in Japan by 2024. Amid the growing tensions between the United States and China, the latest move from the transatlantic alliance is perceived as a way to shore up Western security partnerships in the Indo-Pacific. In that perspective, a NATO office in Tokyo would build on the momentum brought about by other multilateral initiatives such as the Quad (Australia, India, Japan, and the U.S.) and AUKUS (Australia, the U.K., and the U.S.)." https://thediplomat.com/2023/06/a-nato-office-in-japan-much-ado-about-not-much/ [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 14:30, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
:Oh yah. I'm sure China, Russia, and the civilian populations of Japan and NATO countries in Europe are thrilled about it. Of course, in the "democratic" Western countries, nobody ever asked the people what they thought about this - you know, the people ultimately saddled with the cost. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:33, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
Oh, and Dictator Thug Putin asked the people of Ukraine what they thought about his invasion before invading, did he? No, the Thug denied he was ever going to invade, until the last moment, when he did, and since greater than 90% oppose his invasion, if he had any respect for Ukraine's Democracy and right to self-determination, which he doesn't, he'd leave. He doesn't even respect Russia's Democracy, and throws Opposition Leaders in jail, or has them killed, quite blatantly, with poisonous substances everyone knows comes from the KGB and Kremlin. HE doesn't even try to hide it sometimes; he's a cold, methodological killer, and he's got you hoodwinked into believing he's a decent person. You know, that meme, of "how countries join Russia (with whole cities destroyed/leveled)" and "how countries join NATO" (with a pic of people smiling and shaking hands) sums it up perfectly. The latter is Democracy in Action. The former is not, and is Anti-Democracy to the core. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 00:39, June 19, 2023 (EDT)
:Let me know when NATO holds its next referendum. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:53, June 19, 2023 (EDT)
===Prospects of nuclear war===
Don't worry about Putin the mad man using [[nuke]]s, worry about [[Lukashenko]]. Go ahead, let Biden, Poland, and Zelensky come up with another hare-brained scheme to send terrorist Nazis into [[Belarus]] as the "Belarussian Liberation Army" or whatever. Lukashenko's already promised to nuke their butts (and not likely to strike on Belarussian territory). And he doesn't even need to consult with or ask permission from Putin first. It's pretty easy for Belarus to feel threatened, they only got about a 70,000 man army. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:12, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
=== War in Ukraine: A forever war or a war that the GOP will end? ===
"A FOREVER WAR BEGINS
These largely immutable factors could well produce a drawn-out hot war between Russia and Ukraine. Indeed, history suggests that is the most likely outcome. A study from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, using data from 1946 to 2021 compiled by Uppsala University, found that 26 percent of interstate wars end in less than a month and another 25 percent within a year. But the study also found that “when interstate wars last longer than a year, they extend to over a decade on average.” Even those that last fewer than ten years can be exceptionally destructive. The Iran-Iraq war, for example, lasted for nearly eight years, from 1980 to 1988, and resulted in almost half a million combat fatalities and roughly as many wounded. After all its sacrifices, Ukraine deserves to avoid such a fate.
A long war between Russia and Ukraine will also be highly problematic for the United States and its allies, as a recent RAND study I co-authored with the political scientist Miranda Priebe shows. A protracted conflict would keep the risk of possible escalation—either to Russian nuclear use or to a Russian-NATO war—at its current elevated level. Ukraine would be on near-total economic and military life support from the West, which will eventually cause budgetary challenges for Western countries and readiness problems for their militaries. The global economic fallout of the war, including the volatility in grain and energy prices, would persist. The United States would be unable to focus its resources on other priorities, and Russian dependence on China would deepen. Although a long war would also further weaken Russia, that benefit does not outweigh these costs."[https://archive.md/ASTCm#selection-1621.0-1641.562]
On the other hand, [https://www.voanews.com/a/rift-among-republicans-grows-over-us-support-for-ukraine/7007189.html Rift Growing Among Republicans Grows Over US Support for Ukraine] and [https://archive.md/etYdh Congressional Support for Aiding Ukraine Frays Amid Spending Battle].
If the economy worsens, maybe a Republican will win the USA presidency in 2024 and decide to pull the plug on funding Ukraine and try to get an armistice. Right now, the [https://electionbettingodds.com/PresidentialParty2024.html prediction markets give the Democrats a 4% greater possibility chance of winning the presidency in 2024].
Professor [[John Joseph Mearsheimer]], who predicted the war in Ukraine, expects the war in Ukraine to drag on and on for a long while. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 20:37, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:The [[Biden junta]] is trying to convert their failure into a frozen conflict (like Korea) later this year; not likely the Russians will go for it. So the US would have to keep pumping money in to support the defeated regime and/or [[NATO]]'s "coalition of the willing" to keep the conflict going. By then, the American public and some European allies likely will bail. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:01, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:Alternatively, the US can accept defeat and cut n run like Vietnam and Afghanistan. Only this time, it would be a defeat for the whole NATO alliance, with members starting to bail (Germany is ready to toss the NATO warmongers out of office after the NATO attack on the [[Nordstream pipeline]], and France is asking to join [[BRICS]], that no way would accept France as long as it has [[Russia sanctions]], send weapons to Ukraine, and is a member of NATO.) [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:08, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::"The Keys to the White House is a prediction system for determining the outcome of presidential elections in the United States. It was developed by American historian Allan Lichtman and Russian geophysicist Vladimir Keilis-Borok in 1981, adapting prediction methods that Keilis-Borok designed for earthquake prediction. The system is a thirteen-point checklist that assesses the situation of the country and political system ahead of a presidential election. When five or fewer items on the checklist are false, the incumbent party candidate is predicted to win the election. Some of the items on this checklist involve qualitative judgment, and therefore the reliability of this system relies heavily on the knowledge and analytical skill of whoever attempts to apply it. Using his own system, Lichtman has correctly predicted the outcomes of all presidential elections from 1984 to 2020, with the exception of the 2000 election."[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House]
::Key #10 is: "No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs."[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House]
::The Biden administration already had the poorly executed pullout from Afghanistan so they will try to avoid a defeat in Ukraine as long as possible to avoid losing face and incurring more electability damage on the foreign/military affairs front. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 21:30, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::Many of the issues will change or be settled long before November 2024, out of pure military and economic necessity. The GOP and presidential politics hardly factor in. You're peeing in the wind. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:45, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::First, I wrote: "The Biden administration already had the poorly executed pullout from Afghanistan so they will try to avoid a defeat in Ukraine as long as possible". When I wrote "as long as possible" that does include the two possibilities that things will change or be settled long before November 2024.
::::Also, it is noteworthy that Professor [[John Joseph Mearsheimer]], who predicted the war in Ukraine, expects the war in Ukraine to drag on and on for a long while. Mearsheimer is a realistic person who is not prone to intellectual arrogance. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:08, June 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Biden, Sullivan and those idiots want a frozen conflict with no winner, Russia wants the United States and NATO out. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:06, June 15, 2023 (EDT)
:::::IOWs, when Congress pulls the plug and all the NATO people leave, the [[Zelensky regime]] folds up shop, too. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:14, June 15, 2023 (EDT)
:::::If [[BlackRock]] wants to reclaim some of its collateral, they'll have to talk to the Russians about that. But it may be difficult, they may be on Russia's sanctions list. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:18, June 15, 2023 (EDT)
:::::The IMF, the Bank for International Settlements, and various international courts will be arguing for years on property claims. They probably need some good Russian lawyers for actions in Russian courts. Russia just gonna say, send the bill the United States. The US bought and paid for the war. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:23, June 15, 2023 (EDT)
Although pro-[[natalism]] policies are expensive and no panacea for subreplacement levels of fertility, both France and Hungary have used them (See: [https://ifstudies.org/blog/pro-natal-policies-work-but-they-come-with-a-hefty-price-tag Pro-Natal Policies Work, But They Come With a Hefty Price Tag]) with some degree of success. Given [[Russia's fertility rate]] and its grave effects on the future of Russia, Putin would be smart to try to end this conflict ASAP and spend the war economy money on a pro-natalism program instead. France now has about a fertility rate 1.83 births per woman (2020), which although not a replacement level of births (Which is 2.1 births per woman), is still higher than it would be without expensive pronatalism policies.
Countries that have a guns and butter economy really do a number on themselves so Russia should not do that. Russia needs more butter in its economy and less of a guns-oriented economy (Namely, a war economy).
Russia has [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/abortion-rates-by-country the highest abortion rate in the world] (It is higher than the abortion rate of the USA). [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 17:26, June 15, 2023 (EDT)
:Russia's fertility rate is virtually identical to America's. You are basically making an appeal for [[open borders]] to boost America's fertility rate. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 23:54, June 15, 2023 (EDT)
::Three things: 1) More people are leaving Russia since Putin than are going into Russia. People want to come to the USA so the USA can do legal immigration using a point system that rewards skills/wealth in immigration candidates that causes a higher quality of immigration which can boost the economy and create job-producing businesses. Trump advocated such immigration. 2) The USA can increase religiosity which is tied to higher birth rates via school choice and tackling indoctrination in public schools. DeSantis has had the guts to tackle leftism/wokism in public education and has greatly increased school choice. 3) The USA can stop engaging in foolish forever wars and use some of that wealth to be able to give generous tax credits for couples that have children. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:24, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::Nobody's listening cause everybody can see you don't know what you are talking about. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 01:15, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::There are no solutions, only trade offs. And your whole argument is a justification for [[open borders]] and [[illegal immigration]] to criticize [[Vladimir Putin]] and [[Russia]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 01:41, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::Legal immigration is not open borders - no matter how much you pretend it is. Right now, the world is moving into a high-tech era and there is a shortage of people with skills in the USA. Lots of jobs requiring various skills can't be filled. The USA should upgrade its educational system (allow more school choice) and upgrade its immigration system so it is skilled/money based. It's no longer the 1800s where America needs a lot of ditch diggers. I wish the USA could better fill those jobs, but unfortunately a lot of blue states/cities have laws/systems that are anti-[[natalism]], not very family friendly (High regulations as far as building homes which drive home cost up, etc.) plus they often have poor educational systems. And the sad truth is that many Americans have a poor work ethic which is another reason why many jobs are not being filled. America has a lot of old people and it needs workers to be better able to support them. In 2019, it was reported that South Dakota is one of just two states where there are enough babies being born to keep the population steady.[https://www.keloland.com/news/why-sd-is-leading-the-nation-with-fertility-rate/] I wish the rest of the USA had a lot of the family/cultural values of South Dakota, but the reality is that they don't. But I am not going to spend a lot of my trying vainly attempting to change people's views on immigration because it is hard to change people's political views - especially when it comes to immigration. In addition, politics is downwind from culture, so the best way to change culture is through Christian evangelism.
::::Also, you are obsessed with globalism. The UN, the World Economic Forum, the Atlantic Council and other globalist organizations could be dissolved tomorrow and the people who want a one-size-fits-all secular, liberal universalism wouldn't disappear. That is because it is people within the USA and Western countries that want to radically change American/Western/world culture (I recommend watching this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVzUfl1RQU0 In Defense of Particularistic Nationalism] because he makes this point). And the Western "elites" (I don't think they are very elite due to their errant ideas) are not the only ones to want to spread their influence as China is trying to do the same (It also wants people to be more open to its values.), but it is often failing as anti-China sentiment is growing in various parts of the world.
::::Also, globalism is losing influence and nationalism and people's wishes to retain their culture is growing. That is partly due to [[desecularization]] as religion influences culture to a high degree. And supply chains are moving closer to home. China is rapidly greying so its mercantilism and influence is going to be short-lived due to a lack of workers (See: [[Skepticism about China remaining a global power]]). And Russian influence will wane in the world (See: [[Essay: Why I am not bullish on Russia's future]]). But right now, it still has a fair amount of influence due to its oil/gas/agricultural products.
::::Although I can use my various skills and upgrade my various skills in order better be able to change other people's views, the truth is that if I want to change my life and others' lives for the better, my time is often better spent trying to change myself. That is because most people's worst enemies are themselves when it comes to being at a higher spiritual, mental, moral, and physical fitness and financial level. In addition, you can lead a horse to water, but ultimately you can't make him drink. On the other hand, it is my Christian duty to spread the gospel and people becoming Christians is a good thing for them, those around them and for the world at large (See: [[Christianity and social stability]]). And the stronger Christian and overall person I am, the better able I am better able to help others (Donations, prayers, using skills to help others, volunteer time, etc.). [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 08:32, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
The USA could slow down the pace of legal immigration and allow for more assimilation and there are advantages to that. But the baby boomers would have to agree to come out of retirement and work. Pity the politician who tries to sell that idea to boomers! Personally, I think the retirement age should be raised and it might be. But that idea is very unpopular in the West and Emmanual Macron in France is getting a lot of pushback. I suspect Western politicians are going to do a lot of money printing instead and force the seniors to go back to work due to inflation driving up food and other costs. Printing money is a lot easier to do than raising people's taxes. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:18, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:The USA could also slow legal immigration by cutting down its military budget which could make it easier to finance expenditures on its aging population. But I don't see that happening. Both the GOP/Democrats are in the pocket of the military/industrial/financial complex. Plus, I think many Americans like being the big man on the military campus compared to many other nations. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:35, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::Even with legal immigration, the United States fertility rate is 1.64 (five decades after the 1965 Immigration Reform Act; IOWs. those immigrant groups who came to the US also suffered a decline in birth rates) versus the Russian Federation's 1.58. Technically, the United States is in a worse situation than Russia.
:::The more you talk, the more you prove how ignorant you are on certain subjects outside you specialties. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 11:58, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::As to the whole premise to this thread, "War in Ukraine: A forever war or a war that the GOP will end?", you just had your answer. 20 Republicans of the GOP's 5 seat majority just voted in support of Nazisymp, warmonger, and Russia hoaxer [[Adam Schiff]]. "We fight Russia there so we don't have to fight Russia here." Stop embarrassing yourself. Stick to things you know and understand. Thanks. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:00, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::RobS, you wrote: "Even with legal immigration, the United States fertility rate is 1.64 (five decades after the 1965 Immigration Reform Act; IOWs. those immigrant groups who came to the US also suffered a decline in birth rates) versus the Russian Federation's 1.58. Technically, the United States is in a worse situation than Russia."
:::Russia has lost population since Putin came into power while the USA has gained population. Foreigners are not flocking to Russia, but they want to come to the USA. No amount of mental gymnastics on your part is going to alter this fact.
:::As far as the GOP potentially ending this war, I did not give a very short time frame in the future. That is merely the strawman that you set up in order to knock it down. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 13:13, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::I also said, "Technically, the United States is in a worse situation than Russia." Even with legal immigration to the United States since Putin took power 20 years ago in Russia, immigration has only boosted the US fertility rate to 1.64 versus Russia's "worse" 1.58. Again, the US in a worse position than Russia.
::::C'mon now, the logic here is not rocket science. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:47, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::So I will restate my premise once again: Your attacks on Putin and Russia are justification and advocacy for [[open borders]] and [[illegal immigration]]. And if you don't get you talking points directly from [[globalist]]s, your thought patterns, analytical abilities, and way of looking at the world have been trained and [[brainwash]]ed within the globalist system. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:53, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::You often cite Mearsheimer, yet in talking to you it obvious you either don't listen to him, or don't understand what he says or has said. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:55, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::Mearsheimer has repeatedly refuted the false aand vicious personal attacks on Putin that you and other globalists engage in. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 13:59, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::RobS wrote: "Your attacks on Putin and Russia are justification and advocacy for [[open borders]] and [[illegal immigration]]."
::::You are engaging in [[non sequitur]] argumentation. It's obvious that you can't defend your Putin/Russia cheerleading. The Russians by far know more about Putin/Russia more than you do. Russia has lost population since Putin came into power. People vote with their feet and Putin/Russia lost the election. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 14:07, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::::I don't defend my Putin/Russia cheerleading anymore than Prof. John J. Mearsheimer does. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:13, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
As far as Russia:
"Deaths have outpaced births almost every year since the end of communism. Russia’s population peaked in 1993 at 148.6 million. At the start of 2022, it was estimated at 145.6 million. That’s a decline of only two per cent but, by way of comparison, the U.S. population grew 33 per cent from 1990 to 2020. The World Bank calculates that Russian life expectancy is only 71 years compared with 77 in the United States...
Russia stands out for its extraordinarily high death rate, particularly among men, from cardiovascular diseases (heart attacks, strokes, etc.) and injuries (homicides, suicides, accidents). This can be explained by Russia’s terrible health-care system, its environmental pollution, and its high levels of binge drinking and drug addiction — which, in turn, are a sign of despair."[https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-russias-population-crisis-is-making-putin-more-dangerous] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 14:22, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:It means nothing without comparisons from Western Europe and America, and the impacts of [[transgenderism]] and [[LGBT]] on fertility, or the impact of US government sanctioned import of [[fentanyl]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:28, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::Perhaps you believe the import of fentanyl is a free people making a free choice in a [[capitalist]] economy. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:30, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::There is evidence that very recently there is a growing backlash against LGBTQ+ ideology in the USA: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KnD_n4uFVg Woke Teachers FREAK OUT as Students Chant ‘My Pronouns Are USA!’]. And this occurred in the blue state of Massachusetts!
:::USA! USA! USA! [[Essay: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future|The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future]]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 15:39, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::See below about predictions. If we followed the bible, you'd have been executed by stoning for false prophecies sometime ago. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 15:58, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
===Undefensible arguments===
One clue about false arguments (in any context) is, when faced with a bad group of condemning facts, advocates retreat to "coulda woulda shoulda" arguments about the past (for example "Ukrainian Russians should have moved to Russia") or predictions about the future ("By Christmas bla bla bla" or "The GOP will win the next election and there will be peace and happiness for ever"). It's a form of denial. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 14:17, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:Putin should have never attacked Ukraine in February of 2022. It made Russia's demographic situation worse. Due to Putin's decision to attack Ukraine in February of 2022 many Russian-speaking Ukrainians have fled to Eastern/central Ukraine and had their former homes destroyed.
:What matters in public policy is the results and not any good intentions that they express. Good leaders consider various scenarios and any possible [[unintended consequences]].
:Due to Europe's aging population which is projected to shrink and its various current and projected problems, Professor [[John Joseph Mearsheimer]] stated: “Europe doesn't matter anymore. You know, Europe is basically a giant museum.”[https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10989704-europe-doesn-t-matter-anymore-you-know-europe-is-basically-a] See: [[Decline of Europe]]
:The idea that the much smaller country of Ukraine and a declining Europe posed a significant future threat to Russia is laughable. Putin should have focused on fixing Russia's myriad of problems rather than attacking Ukraine which made Russia's future prospects even worse. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 16:15, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::(a) coulda woulda shoulda; (b) if Europe doesn't matter anymore, why does [[NATO]] exist?; (c) oh, so Ukraine has not been attacking [[Moscow]] with NATO provided missiles and drones. Thanks for clarifying that. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup>
:::Do you think Russia is going to lose the war in Ukraine? No, you don't. I stand by what I wrote above. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 16:36, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::Do you think the NATO/Ukraine fascists will defeat Russia? According to Mearsheimer, you will get nuked first before that ever happens (oh, I forget, you not only reverted the clip of Mearsheimer saying that on your user talk page, you deleted Mearsheimer saying that.). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 16:39, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::::I have said multiple times that I think Russia will probably keep much of its territorial gains and that much of Ukraine will get wrecked (I agree with Mearsheimer that Russia will likely wreck Ukraine). You know this. You are just trying to save face due to losing this debate. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 16:50, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Will the US-backed Maidan and Zelensky regime survive? Will the US and NATO be booted from Western Ukraine and Kyiv, and be replaced with a Putin/Russia stooge regime? Ukraine does not have the manpower or equipment to defend itself. That is the main issue, which you have never addressed. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:16, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Mearseimer has clearly said, if NATO is not driven out of Ukraine, and Ukraine does not declare itself neutral, the probability of nuclear war is very high. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:19, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::::And when NATO accepts the inevitability of its defeat in the war that IT started, that most likely will spell the end of the NATO alliance. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:22, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::::As Mearsheimer said, "Europe doesn't matter anymore", and when European powers jump ship from behind American leadership and the American defensive umbrella, that means the US ''WILL NOT'' be "the leading power for the foreseeable future." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:25, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::::You're living in a dream world - after Biden, Blinken, Sullivan, and the [[neocon]]s castrated you. And you keep begging for ''more'' abuse. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:27, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Take a hint: [[User:Conway!]] promised back in December to be back April to compare your's Conway's globalist talking points with the reality on the ground; it's now June so he's hiding out. But you have learned nothing of the past year and half, and continuously repeat Western BS, lies, propaganda, globalist talking points. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:40, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::The most insidious thing is you haven't figured out you have been lied to. And you keep begging for more war, more to be added to the [[national debt]], and more [[inflation]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 17:44, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
China increased its power recently by being an economic power - not being a great military power - but its future prospects have diminished (See: [[Skepticism about China remaining a global power]]). In an age of [[fourth generation warfare]], military power has a lower utility. The world will likely go through some tough economic times through a portion of the 2030's[https://www.conservapedia.com/User:Conservative/Economics#ITR_Economics], but the USA is best positioned to bounce back economically for a variety of reasons (See: [[Essay: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future|The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future]]). [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 17:55, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:More [[globalist]] crap. The United States made China an economic power by granting it MFN, [[WTO]] membership, and tariff-free access to American consumer markets - China ''did not'' make itself a power, as you claim. And the current war in Ukraine disproves your [[globalist]] talking points - that "fourth generation warfare" and information [[propaganda]] trumps industrial military capacity. You should just stop copy pasting globalist propaganda and talking points into your brain to make yourself sound intelligent or informed. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 18:18, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
Another strawman as I merely said China increased its strength through economic power. And surely China had a role in negotiating its MFN WTO membership and tariff-free access to American markets.
Also, yet another strawman as I merely said military power has a lower utility. I did not say it has no utility.
Perhaps one of the reasons you are engaging in these strawman arguments is that you are engaging in all-or-nothing thinking. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 18:31, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:No. The United States increased China's economic strength through trade deals. What planet were you on when President Trump spoke about China for the past 8 years? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:19, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::Definition of economics: "the branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth." Trade deals are a part of economics and therefore a part of economic power. China increased its economic power by negotiating trade deals that were favorable to them.
::So nothing I said above was in error. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:36, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:Make that 12 years.
::[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-expletives/trump-calls-u-s-leaders-stupid-idUSTRE73S5PC20110429 ''Reuters'': Trump calls U.S. leaders "stupid", April 29, 2011.]
:::''Trump’s speech at the Treasure Island Hotel and Casino targeted the U.S. relationship with China, OPEC countries, and Saudi Arabia, while lauding his own accomplishments.
:::''“When people are screwing you, you don’t give them state dinners,” Trump said of China. “We have weak, pathetic leadership. We have incompetent leadership.”
:::''“Our leaders are stupid,” Trump said. “They are stupid people. Its very, very sad.”
:What's he talking about? The US granting China Most Favored Nation status access in 2004 to the American consumer market, which shipped American jobs to China, destroyed our manufacturing base, and leaves us with an $875 billion annual [[trade deficit]].
:It's fairly obvious, you have not followed events over the past 20 years, and have no understanding of the propaganda you read, which influences the contradictory and absurd things you say. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 19:37, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::I literally said above: "China increased its economic power by negotiating trade deals that were favorable to them."
::It is increasingly clear that you are being contentious and desperately seeking to salvage a debate loss. It's not working. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:45, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::And you just don't want to admit that there are a LOT of better places to live than Russia. Russia is the place that you are not moving to. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:52, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::::I don't care. I'm not a pitchman for the Russian Convention and Visitors Bureau. But your arguments that holocaust victims should just move is pretty pathetic. You have no understanding or a sense of [[justice]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 21:03, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
Much of Donbas is now devastated and uninhabitable. Russian-speaking Ukrainians have fled to Eastern/Central Ukraine. In January 2023, as far as Ukraine, it was reported that a total of 149,300 residential buildings were damaged or destroyed, including: 131,400 private houses, 17,500 apartment buildings and 280 dormitories.
On top of this, a ton of Ukrainians/Russians have died.
If the Russian-speaking Ukrainians had moved at least they could have sold their houses. Now a ton of them have nothing or they are dead.
Both Russia and Ukraine are corrupt and authoritarian. So if you were expecting justice and wisdom from Putin, who is a divorced ex-KGB agent who rarely attends church, you were looking in the wrong place. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:26, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:A great dentist does minimally invasive dentistry. He doesn't go on a reckless tooth-pulling spree and cause a ton of damage. If Putin were a dentist, I would never walk into his office. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:33, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::Oh, so Ukraine committed 149,300 [[war crimes]] using [[human shield]]s. I congratulate you on your success. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 22:44, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
::[https://www.bitchute.com/video/tjyHkZRLiDiu/ This is a war crime: hiding tanks in civilian structures.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 23:52, June 16, 2023 (EDT)
:::[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL65HKFevUNqLs-0AXYmDHdyg9-QtnfnhC Bigger Better Stronger - Donald Trump Remix]. Let hope for MAGA 2024! (See: [[Essay: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future|The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future]]). USA! USA! USA! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:55, June 17, 2023 (EDT)
::::For some reason, you keep introducing the names "Donald Trump" and "Republican" into discussions on the current situation in Ukraine; I'm left with the impression that if the neighbor's dog kept pooping in your yard, you'd respond, "Just wait til the next election, the Republicans will fix that!" [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]</sup> 02:14, June 18, 2023 (EDT)