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Moved material from Aschlafly's Talk page
Couple points here: The Jewkes' book (either edition; the second edition differs in that it has 35 or 40 additonal pages that deal with the English economy up to about 1960) does not support RobS conculsions. RobS origninal article is about the U. S. economy. Please explain how that supports your argument?--[[User:Irat|Irat]] 12:04, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
Couple points here: The Jewkes' book (either edition; the second edition differs in that it has 35 or 40 additonal pages that deal with the English economy up to about 1960) does not support RobS conculsions. RobS origninal article is about the U. S. economy. Please explain how that supports your argument?--[[User:Irat|Irat]] 12:04, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
==Material moved from Aschlafly's Talk page==
I started the following discussion on Aschafly's Talk page. I didn't mean for it to get so long. I'm moving the discussion here; the portion above the horizontal rule is still on [[User_Talk:Aschlafly]]. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 13:41, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
===Do conservatives commonly call FDR's administration the "New Ordeal?"===
Are you familiar with this? Among conservatives, is it a commonly-used satirical name for the New Deal? Much discussion about this is in progress... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 09:41, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
:As the article states, it is not direct criticism of the New Deal, it refers to the period 1929 to 1949, when the US economy finally recovered from the Crash of '29. The term has long been common among investors refering to both the Great Depression and World War II. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 10:05, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
::I've moved the rest of this discussion to [[Talk:Essay:New_Ordeal]]. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 13:41, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
----
Any proof of that, RobS? You have been asked to support your claim several times.--[[User:Oldring|Oldring]] 10:09, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
:Ok, Wikipedia uses a redirect for "Contract on America" to "Contract with America"; do we wish to use a Wikipedia model or precedent here? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Contract_on_America&redirect=no [[User:RobS|RobS]]
::Rob, why not just admit to effective use of rhetoric? It is a pretty clever phrase, just unique. Actually, why dont you copy and paste the actual quote here that uses New Ordeal?[[User:Frederick|Frederick]] 10:47, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
*''The New Ordeal by Planning'', John Jewkes, Macmillan and Co., Ltd., 1968. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:07, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
::Which I'm not familiar with, but, as nearly as I can tell, is about ''post'' World War II planning in ''England?'' Or have I got that wrong? Continue at [[Talk:New Ordeal]]... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:13, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
:Also known as "Ordeal by Planning",this essay was about econ planning in the '''UK''', not the U.S., and while, given his arguments, he prob would not have supported the New Deal, he didn't call it the New Ordeal.
::''John Jewkes (1902 - 1988) is best known for his book Ordeal by Planning which he wrote in 1946 in an attempt to show that the wartime planning system, which many people wished to maintain and develop in the post-war world, would condemn the United Kingdom to poverty and failure. If Friedrich von Hayek in The Road to Serfdom provided a more celebrated philosophical treatise, it was Jewkes who produced a more down to earth and practically convincing case against central planning.'' http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Jewkes.
:::You have to see Jewkes earlier 1948 book, ''Ordeal by Planning'', and Hayek's 1945 work, ''Road to Serfdom''. It is essentially critique of [[Keynesian]] economic theory. Some of James Burnham's 1941 ''Managerial Revolution'' can also probably fit in here. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:22, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
::::Yes, but I think the question at hand isn't whether Jewkes or Hayek were opposed to Keynesian theory and President Roosevelt's New Deal program. Clearly they were. It's not even whether the New Deal was successful or not. Certainly good arguments can be made on both sides. It's simply whether the term "The New Ordeal" is an established satirical phrase used to refer to the time between 1929-1949 or any part of it, or if it's just a new term you've created.--[[User:Epicurius|Steve]] 11:27, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
<--Believe it or not, there always were critics of [[Keynesianism]], New Deal, and economic planning, despite attempts to suppress publication of Hayak's ''Road to Serfdom''. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 13:05, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
Why are you citing these works? They have little to do with your original premise which dealt with the U.S. economy, and you STILL have not provided a response as where the phrase "New Ordeal" came from. Stop the distractions, the referring of readers to refrences that do not support your contentions, the dismissing those who challege you as "trolls." Show a little bit of intellectual Integrity. You are an conservapedia sysyop. Now act like one.--[[User:Irat|Irat]] 13:34, 12 June 2007 (EDT)