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Where did all the people from the city of Nod come from? (view source)
Revision as of 14:35, June 30, 2007
, 14:35, June 30, 2007Replies to various people
::::::I agree. It seems clear to me that Adam + his family were not the only people around at that point. That jives with the other ancient histories as well. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 08:16, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::I agree. It seems clear to me that Adam + his family were not the only people around at that point. That jives with the other ancient histories as well. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 08:16, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::: How could that jive, then, with the description of the world before the Fall? And the Bible says God made the Heavens and the Earth. Were Japanese Gods Izanami and Izanagi helping Him out? [[User:Tomservo|Tomservo]] 08:24, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::: How could that jive, then, with the description of the world before the Fall? And the Bible says God made the Heavens and the Earth. Were Japanese Gods Izanami and Izanagi helping Him out? [[User:Tomservo|Tomservo]] 08:24, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::::I'd like you to explain why you think it's in chronological order, and how it's "pretty clear" that Adam and Eve didn't have many other children until after Seth. On the contrary, I'd say that as Seth was born when Adam was 130, as a replacement for Abel, Abel's murder must have happened when Adam was around 129, which is ''plenty'' of time for Adam and Eve to have lots of other children, and their children to have their own children, and them to have their own, etc., i.e. many generations. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:35, 30 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::You are making this more difficult than it has to be, as Phillip has pointed out. Cain married later after he already had a number of brothers and sisters and probably nieces and nephews. When you have 900 years or so of time, a lot can happen. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 08:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::You are making this more difficult than it has to be, as Phillip has pointed out. Cain married later after he already had a number of brothers and sisters and probably nieces and nephews. When you have 900 years or so of time, a lot can happen. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 08:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
:::::::But remember what Cain asked for when they kicked him out? He said, "But whoever finds me will kill me." Who was he worried about if there was nobody else around? It's the same problem. The Bible never says there was nobody else around. There are two reasons in the Bible itself to believe there were (Cain's marriage in Nod and his fear of being killed, and being given a mark to protect him). I can think of no reason to assume there was no one else around.[[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 15:28, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
:::::::But remember what Cain asked for when they kicked him out? He said, "But whoever finds me will kill me." Who was he worried about if there was nobody else around? It's the same problem. The Bible never says there was nobody else around. There are two reasons in the Bible itself to believe there were (Cain's marriage in Nod and his fear of being killed, and being given a mark to protect him). I can think of no reason to assume there was no one else around.[[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 15:28, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::::::"Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, [that] every one that findeth me shall slay me." And the LORD said unto him, "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
::::::::::"Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, [that] every one that findeth me shall slay me." And the LORD said unto him, "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
:::::::::Cain's remarks indicate some knowledge on his part that there are people out there who will kill him if they find him -- because why would he be afraid of things that didn't exist? And Yahweh's actions (protecting Cain with a mark and promising vengence on whoever harms him) indicate that there was somebody to protect Cain from, who would be dissuaded by the mark, and vengence taken upon them if they hurt him. How does this passage make any sense without other people in the world? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:35, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
:::::::::Cain's remarks indicate some knowledge on his part that there are people out there who will kill him if they find him -- because why would he be afraid of things that didn't exist? And Yahweh's actions (protecting Cain with a mark and promising vengence on whoever harms him) indicate that there was somebody to protect Cain from, who would be dissuaded by the mark, and vengence taken upon them if they hurt him. How does this passage make any sense without other people in the world? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:35, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::::::Yes, there were "other" people: other descendants of Adam and Eve. There's no need to go speculating about others who aren't descended from Adam and Even, and to do so is contrary to the claim that Eve is the mother of all living and that we are all descended from Adam. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:35, 30 June 2007 (EDT)
::::::''the Bible says God made the Heavens and the Earth. Were Japanese Gods Izanami and Izanagi helping Him out?''
::::::''the Bible says God made the Heavens and the Earth. Were Japanese Gods Izanami and Izanagi helping Him out?''
:::::::The Bible says Elohim (gods) created the heavens and the Earth, but Yahweh Elohim (The Lord of the Gods) created Adam and Eve. The word Elohim is used throughout the first chapter, and word(s) "Yahweh Elohim" throughout the second chapter. The difference is so striking that some people think the two chapters are two different creation accounts. I just think the story is focusing in from the general to the particular -- from the gods to the Lord of the Gods. Check out the book of Jubilees and the book of Enoch for some interesting accounts of this time-period. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 15:28, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
:::::::The Bible says Elohim (gods) created the heavens and the Earth, but Yahweh Elohim (The Lord of the Gods) created Adam and Eve. The word Elohim is used throughout the first chapter, and word(s) "Yahweh Elohim" throughout the second chapter. The difference is so striking that some people think the two chapters are two different creation accounts. I just think the story is focusing in from the general to the particular -- from the gods to the Lord of the Gods. Check out the book of Jubilees and the book of Enoch for some interesting accounts of this time-period. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 15:28, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
I believe that the genealogies were telescoped. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 12:57, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
I believe that the genealogies were telescoped. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 12:57, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
:Why? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 12:58, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
:Why? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 12:58, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
::Yes, why? Especially given that the experts believe otherwise? [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:35, 30 June 2007 (EDT)