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Debate:Does the Bible (Old and the New Testament) have the infallible words of God? (view source)
Revision as of 00:26, July 18, 2007
, 00:26, July 18, 2007→Hypocricy without Faith
And, you didn't answer why God made Pharaoh change his mind. Which also, I just remembered, violates free will.
And, you didn't answer why God made Pharaoh change his mind. Which also, I just remembered, violates free will.
I don't believe the God of the Bible is attractive. I do believe a guy named Jesus was around, and that he was crucified, and etc. Now whether or not it goes down like it says in the Bible exactly, I don't know. - Bob Sanchez
I don't believe the God of the Bible is attractive. I do believe a guy named Jesus was around, and that he was crucified, and etc. Now whether or not it goes down like it says in the Bible exactly, I don't know. - Bob Sanchez
''It implied thay went to hell, as they couldn't follow the law or Jesus.''
: Again, it only implied that if you assume that the author believed that you automatically go to hell if you don't have the law or ever hear of Jesus. I don't see any evidence in the text that the author of Exodus assumed those things. I don't see the words "Hell" or "Jesus" anywhere in that book, nor any implication that the author had any idea what either of those things are. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
''1.)Why he says only through faith and not actions can you be saved, but in this passage it says all your actions are judged, and you're punished accordingly. Uh, clarify.''
: Many different opinions on that issue. My personal opinion is that the "faith, not works" passage is badly misinterpreted by contemporary Christianity. Faith is not "mere belief." To be faithful as a spouse is to keep your promises and fulfill your role and duties, even when you don't feel like it. That's what I think "Faith" means in that context. To be faithful to God as to a spouse -- by keeping our promises and living out our commitment. And I think the argument he's making is to legalistic people who think they are saved by doing X,Y, and Z ritual, and saying, "Don't take pride in your ritualistic works -- they aren't what save you -- it is your keeping of your commitment as a whole, which is grounded in HUMILITY. 20:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
''2.)It also says in this passage that God does not show favortism; He had "chosen people" in the form of Israelites, again an example of the Bible contradicting itself.''
: Again, many opinions. My personal opinion is that the two passages do not contradict each other. God ''judges'' all people by the same standard, but selected Israel to be a city on a hill -- an example to the rest of us. Nowhere does it say that only Jews go to heaven, or that only Christians go to heaven. But it does say that both groups were selected for a special purpose to fulfill ''on Earth''. Personally, I'm glad to be a gentile, 'cause I like bacon and lobster. I have fewer restrictions than they do, and still can be judged righteous. Google [[Noahide laws]] for info on how the Jews think we're judged. Seems to me ''they're'' the ones that got the raw deal in their ''own belief system''. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
''3.)Romans 2:12 : "God will punish the Gentiles when they sin, even though they never had God's written law. And he will punish the jews when they sin, for they do have the law." Alright, then.''
:Not sure what you're getting at. It says the Gentiles will be judged ''by their conscience'', not by the letter of the Jewish law. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
''And, you didn't answer why God made Pharaoh change his mind. Which also, I just remembered, violates free will.''
: I don't claim to know. I'm open to the possibilities that "A) it happened, and was just as unfair as it seems to me; B) it happened and was fair in some way I don't understand; C) It didn't happen, and later writers stuck that in there because they wanted to emphasize God's greatness and power. [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
''I don't believe the God of the Bible is attractive. I do believe a guy named Jesus was around, and that he was crucified, and etc. Now whether or not it goes down like it says in the Bible exactly, I don't know.''
: That I can understand. I just think it's important to separate issues of ''fact'' (Does this God exist as described?) from issues of preference (assuming this God exists, do I want anything to do with Him?). Your arguments so far have centered around whether or not he is a ''good'' God ... my question is, what reason do you have to believe that the book is factually and historically false? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 20:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)