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Before anyone chimes in, I recognize that Tolkien was a Christian , but he was still evidently not one who was very concerned with saving his readers' souls or bringing the good news to those around him.  He preferred to keep his head buried in the occult and in false pagan mythology...not exactly a role model for a conservative.

Before anyone chimes in, I recognize that Tolkien was a Christian , but he was still evidently not one who was very concerned with saving his readers' souls or bringing the good news to those around him.  He preferred to keep his head buried in the occult and in false pagan mythology...not exactly a role model for a conservative.

--[[User:JesusSaves|JesusSaves]] 04:54, 10 March 2007 (EST)

--<font color=navy>[[User:JesusSaves|JesusSaves]] 04:54, 10 March 2007 (EST)</font>

:I'm not sure what magic you are referring to.  The only magical things I can think of off the top of my head are the One Ring and the Palantiri.  The One Ring was forged by Sauron, the ultimate force of evil, and its evil power threatens Middle Earth.  The Palantiri were at first used for good, but now they have lead to the downfall of both Saruman and Denethor.  These are the only examples of magic I can think of, and neither of them would make anyone think magic is fun.  Rather, they demonstrate how dangerous it is.  I have read The Lord of the Rings numerous times, and have never found anything in it conflicting with my faith.  Could you provide me with some examples of non-Christian elements in the Lord of the Rings?  Thank you! '''<font color=navy>~ [[User:SharonS|SharonS]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (EST)</font>'''

:I'm not sure what magic you are referring to.  The only magical things I can think of off the top of my head are the One Ring and the Palantiri.  The One Ring was forged by Sauron, the ultimate force of evil, and its evil power threatens Middle Earth.  The Palantiri were at first used for good, but now they have lead to the downfall of both Saruman and Denethor.  These are the only examples of magic I can think of, and neither of them would make anyone think magic is fun.  Rather, they demonstrate how dangerous it is.  I have read The Lord of the Rings numerous times, and have never found anything in it conflicting with my faith.  Could you provide me with some examples of non-Christian elements in the Lord of the Rings?  Thank you! '''<font color=navy>~ [[User:SharonS|SharonS]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (EST)</font>'''

::I agree with you that there is nothing in LOTR that conflicts with christianity, but there are other examples of magic.  Gandalf uses it to make fire, Galadreil's mirror is magic, gandalf and the Gandalf and the balrog fight over a door using magic, etc.

::I agree with you that there is nothing in LOTR that conflicts with christianity, but there are other examples of magic.  Gandalf uses it to make fire, Galadreil's mirror is magic, gandalf and the Gandalf and the balrog fight over a door using magic, etc.

::::There are also magic glowing swords, the wizard who create orc soldiers, Galadriel's magical phial that they use to keep the spider at bay, other magic rings (Galadriel had one), Gandalf's magically glowing staff.  It's not wall to wall magic, like Harry Potter, but there is magic and the good guys use it without any consideration for the morality of doing so.  Some might argue that the fact that someone would say "nothing in LOTR that conflicts with christianity" shows its pernicious and dangerous effects.  Magic is expressly forbidden in the Bible.  Deut 18:10-12 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.  For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you."  Now, I am not suggesting that anyone who likes LOTR is a bad Christian, just that like Harry Potter there is a subtle pro-occult attitude in the stories that conflicts with the express commandments of God.  A Christian can read stories of practices that God despises, but he or she should realize  what those aspects are and avoid accepting anyone who engages in such sins as "heroic" in the way LOTR suggests they might be.  Everyone in those novels seems to be in desperate need of saving, especially anyone who accepts the counsel of Gandalf or the other wizards.  I'd argue that Gandalf is the worst of the bunch, because he seems wise and benevolent, when in reality he the is the sort who we are supposed to drive out from our presence (in fact, under Exodus 22:18 and Leviticus 20:27, we are commanded to put him to death), lest he should "seduce [us] from the way in which the LORD [our] God commanded [us] to walk." (Deut. 13:5) --[[User:JesusSaves|JesusSaves]] 004:35, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

::::There are also magic glowing swords, the wizard who create orc soldiers, Galadriel's magical phial that they use to keep the spider at bay, other magic rings (Galadriel had one), Gandalf's magically glowing staff.  It's not wall to wall magic, like Harry Potter, but there is magic and the good guys use it without any consideration for the morality of doing so.  Some might argue that the fact that someone would say "nothing in LOTR that conflicts with christianity" shows its pernicious and dangerous effects.  Magic is expressly forbidden in the Bible.  Deut 18:10-12 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.  For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you."  Now, I am not suggesting that anyone who likes LOTR is a bad Christian, just that like Harry Potter there is a subtle pro-occult attitude in the stories that conflicts with the express commandments of God.  A Christian can read stories of practices that God despises, but he or she should realize  what those aspects are and avoid accepting anyone who engages in such sins as "heroic" in the way LOTR suggests they might be.  Everyone in those novels seems to be in desperate need of saving, especially anyone who accepts the counsel of Gandalf or the other wizards.  I'd argue that Gandalf is the worst of the bunch, because he seems wise and benevolent, when in reality he the is the sort who we are supposed to drive out from our presence (in fact, under Exodus 22:18 and Leviticus 20:27, we are commanded to put him to death), lest he should "seduce [us] from the way in which the LORD [our] God commanded [us] to walk." (Deut. 13:5) --<font color=navy>[[User:JesusSaves|JesusSaves]] 004:35, 11 March 2007 (EDT)</font>

I seem to recall that Gandalf is the Middle-Earth equivalent of an angel, if that helps at all.  I don't know about the elves, though.

I seem to recall that Gandalf is the Middle-Earth equivalent of an angel, if that helps at all.  I don't know about the elves, though.