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:What Hayek is saying is liberalism, in the classic sense, was weakened to non-existent to oppose Nazism.  And your use of conservative here likewise is problematic; the titled nobility of Germany, or for that matter all of Europe, is "conservative" in the European sense.  As we've had this discussion elsewhere, the US Constitution expressly prohibits the government from conferring titles.  So the express meaning of the term here, "conservative" to refer to von Papen and others is wholely out of context in attempt to draw a parallel to contemporary American conservativism.   

:What Hayek is saying is liberalism, in the classic sense, was weakened to non-existent to oppose Nazism.  And your use of conservative here likewise is problematic; the titled nobility of Germany, or for that matter all of Europe, is "conservative" in the European sense.  As we've had this discussion elsewhere, the US Constitution expressly prohibits the government from conferring titles.  So the express meaning of the term here, "conservative" to refer to von Papen and others is wholely out of context in attempt to draw a parallel to contemporary American conservativism.   

:Shame on you, Order, I have more respect for you and your skills than this feeble reasoning your pushing.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:19, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

:Shame on you, Order, I have more respect for you and your skills than this feeble reasoning your pushing.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:19, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

Classic liberalism was indeed weakened, and the permanent attacks from both sides of the spectrum didn't help. But where did the liberals go? Some went left, other went right. My use of "conservative" is fairly consistent with the use by the people in question themselves. The DNVP, the German National People Party, was for example the legitimate successor of the pre-WWI Konservative Partei, the Conservative Party. This is the party that helped Hitler to a majority of seats in parliament. Same holds for von Papen, he was from the conservative wing of the Zentrum party. I said it a few times in this thread already that contemporary US interpretations of 'left' and 'right' don't apply to the 930s in Germany, so I am not sure what you are complaining about.  And there is no shame in pushing the fact that there were also conservative politicians in Germany who made didn't mind that Weimar failed, who didn't shed a tear when Hitler came to power. One of the lesson of the Third Reich is that if you fail to fix an imperfect democracy for short term political gain, you might end up with some thing worse in the long run. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:32, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

Classic liberalism was indeed weakened, and the permanent attacks from both sides of the spectrum didn't help. But where did the liberals go? Some went left, other went right. My use of "conservative" is fairly consistent with the use by the people in question themselves. The DNVP, the German National People Party, was for example the legitimate successor of the pre-WWI Konservative Partei, the Conservative Party. This is the party that helped Hitler to a majority of seats in parliament. Same holds for von Papen, he was from the conservative wing of the Zentrum party. I said it a few times in this thread already that contemporary US interpretations of 'left' and 'right' don't apply to the 1930s in Germany, so I am not sure what you are complaining about.  And there is no shame in pushing the fact that there were also conservative politicians in Germany who made didn't mind that Weimar failed, who didn't shed a tear when Hitler came to power. One of the lesson of the Third Reich is that if you fail to fix an imperfect democracy for short term political gain, you might end up with some thing worse in the long run. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:32, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

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