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Line 1: − [[Image:Fdt566e4.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Triceratops skeleton at the American Museum of Natural History.]]+ − '''Dinosaurs''' were large, reptilian creatures which are now generally believed to be extinct. The word '''dinosaur''' was coined in 1841 by Richard Owen<ref>[http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i3/dinosaurs.asp Dinosaurs and dragons: stamping on the legends], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref>, from the [[Greek]] words δεινός (deinos) and σαύρα (saura), meaning "terrible lizard."+ − + + − In the United States during the 1900s, the public imagination was caught by the discoveries of [[Henry Fairfield Osborn]] (1857-1935) and the great competitive dinosaur hunters, [[Edward Drinker Cope]] (1847-1897) and [[Othniel Charles Marsh]] (1831-1899). Exploring in Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, they found numerous fossil dinosaurs. Their museums worked out the techniques for mounting and displaying them.+ + + + + − Osborn was a proponent of ''orthogenesis,'' as were many paleontologists up through the middle of the twentieth century. These paleontologists interpreted the fossil record as showing sustained, continuing, unidirectional trends in evolution, which they felt required some kind of driving principle in addition to natural selection. As the author of an encyclopedia article on variation and selection put it in 1911,+ − :Selection cannot create the materials on which it is supposed to operate... Both sides concur in the position assumed by Darwin, that the word "chance" in such a phrase as "chance variation" does not mean that the occurrences are independent of natural causation and so far undetermined, but covers in the first place our ignorance of the exact causation.... No doubt a large amount of variation is truly indefinite, so that many meaningless or useless variations arise... But there are several directions in which the field of variation appears to be not only limited but defined in a certain direction.... When beetles, or medusae, or cats vary, the range of possible variation is limited and determined by the beetle, medusa or cat constitution, and any possible further differentiation or specialization must be in a sense at least orthogenetic - that is to say, a continuation of the line along which the ancestors of the individual in question have been forced. Darwin himself showed that different species in a genus, or varieties in a species, tended to show parallel variations.<ref>Mitchell, Peter Chalmers (1911), ''Variation and Selection,'' ''Encyclopædia Britannica, 11th edition,'' volume 27 (TON-VES), p. 906</ref> − [[Roy Chapman Andrews]] (1884–1960), said to be the prototype for the fictional Indiana Jones, is famous for his discovery of fossil dinosaur eggs in Outer Mongolia.+ − In the 1970, Robert Bakker catalyzed a new era of dinosaur paleontology with evidence that dinosaurs were fully warm-blooded ([[endotherms]]) and fast-moving.<ref>Benton, Michael J. (2000), ''Vertebrate Paleontology'' [http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0632056142&id=PQuKO7xqjNQC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=%22robert+bakker%22&sig=imoHNyurTTCpztNV0Pp2EU7Fj6c p. 217]</ref>+ − ==Dinosaur Species==+ − Dinosaurs were immensely varied, and included both herbivores and carnivores. Although many have been found in the fossil record, paleontologists expect that they have barely scratched the surface of the vast superorder that the dinosaurs encompassed.<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060905-dinosaurs_2.html Vast Majority of Dinosaurs Still to Be Found, Scientists Say], ''National Geographic''</ref> − + − + − Ever since the discovery of dinosaur fossils, there has been debate about whether and how dinosaurs fit into the history of life on Earth. Young-Earth creationists reject the [[uniformitarian]] time-scale, and therefore believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. Some creationists also reject the now-popular idea that dinosaurs evolved into birds. + + − + − [[Creationism|Young Earth Creationists]] believe, based primarily on Biblical [[sources]], that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of the [[Creation Week|creation week]]<ref>''Genesis'' 1:25</ref> approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans.+ − As such, they reject the [[Theory of Evolution]] and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age of the earth. − They believe that dinosaurs lived in harmony with other animals, (probably including in the [[Garden of Eden]]) eating only plants<ref>''Genesis'' 1:29-30</ref>; that pairs of each dinosaur [[kind]] were taken onto [[Noah's Ark]] during the [[Great Flood]] and were preserved from drowning<ref>[http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3967/ Were dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark?], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref>; that many of the fossilized dinosaur bones originated during the mass killing of the Flood<ref>Carl Wieland, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/219/ Dinosaur bones—just how old are they really?], ''Creation'', vol. 21 No. 1 p. 54</ref>; and that possibly some descendants of those dinosaurs taken aboard the Ark are still around today.<ref Name="Today">Robert Doolan, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/833/ Are dinosaurs alive today?], ''Creation'', vol. 15 No. 4 p. 12.</ref> + + − They use [[archaeological]], [[fossil]], and documentary evidence to argue that dinosaurs co-existed with mankind until at least relatively recent times.+ − Because the term only came into use in the 19th century, the [[Bible]] does not use the word "dinosaur." However, they are alleged to be mentioned in numerous places throughout the biblical account. For example, the '''behemoth''' in [[Job]] and the '''leviathan''' in [[Isaiah]] are sometimes said to be references to dinosaurs,<ref>Allan K. Steel, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1799 Could Behemoth have been a dinosaur?], ''Journal of Creation'' vol. 15 No. 2 p. 42.</ref> <ref>[http://www.answersincreation.org/job4041a.htm], ''Answers in Creation''</ref>, although others have claimed that Behemoth and Leviathan are references to a hippopotamus or elephant and a crocodile respectively. Young-Earth creationists point out that the descriptions don't fit these creatures, including that hippopotamuses and elephants don't have a "tail like a cedar".+ − ==== Extinction ====+ + − Creationists reject the "Great Impact Theory", pointing out multiple problems with this theory. <ref>Jonathan Sarfati, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/2426 Did a meteor wipe out the dinosaurs?].</ref>+ + − Creationists assert that evolutionists are frequently coming out with a "New Theory of Dinosaur Extinction" and that their theories are laden with false assumptions. <ref>Michael Matthews, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1115dinosaur.asp Dinosaur demise theory, version #451], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref> It is worth noting, however, that more and more of these theories are being harmonized with one another.<ref>[http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=21082 More Than a Meteor Likely Killed Dinosaurs 65 Million Years Ago], ''SpaceRef.com''</ref>+ + − ====Dinosaurs-like creatures in history and modern sightings====+ − Creationists cite a number of reasons to believe that dinosaurs have existed until relatively recent times, and perhaps still survive.+ + + − * There have been a number of claimed sightings of dinosaur-like creatures.+ − ** A thousand people reported seeing a dinosaur-like monster in two sightings around Sayram Lake in Xinjiang according to the Chinese publication, China Today.<ref name="Today" />+ − ** Among those who believe in the existence of the [[Loch Ness Monster]], one popular theory is that it is a living [[plesiosaur]].<ref>"New Quest Is Haunted By 'Nessie'", ''The New York Times,'' July 14, 1992, p. C4: "Believers say it resembles a plesiosaur and was trapped in Loch Ness during the Ice Age 12,000 years ago. The plesiosaurs were marine reptiles who are thought to have lived 65 million to 200 million years ago."</ref> − ** Locals in the Congo have reported a creature they name ''Mokele-member''<ref name="Today" /><ref>[http://www.mokelembembe.com/ Mokele-mbembe The Living Dinosaur!]</ref>, and from its description it appears to be a small plant-eating dinosaur. The reports have been taken seriously enough that a biologist from [[Chicago University]] has made several expeditions to find the creature. Another biologist has reported seeing the creature.<ref name="Today" /> − * There are drawings of creatures resembling dinosaurs.+ − ** An expedition which included Charles W. Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology with the United States National Museum, examined an ancient pictograph which he claimed portrays dinosaurs and man coexisting.<ref>[http://www.creationism.org/swift/DohenyExpedition/Doheny01Main.htm Doheny Scientific Expedition, Hava Supai Canyon, Arizona], ''Creationism.org''</ref><ref>[http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/the_hava_supai_dinosaur_carving The Hava Supai Dinosaur Carving], ''ChristianCourier.com''</ref>. − ** The Nile Mosaic of Palestrina, a second century piece of art, is said to appear to be a piece of artwork that shows a dinosaur and man coexisting. <ref>[http://www.s8int.com/dinolit2.html Dinosaurs in Literature, Art & History-- Page 2], ''s8int.com''</ref> − ** Engravings in the floor of [[Carlisle Cathedral]] appear to be of dinosaurs. They are on the tomb of bishop Richard Bell, who died in 1496.<ref>See picture on page 241 of Batten, Don, et. al., 2007, ''The Creation Answers Book''.</ref> − * Creatures matching dinosaurs and similar creatures have been described by various people groups.+ − ** The description of the "[[Thunder bird]]" of [[American Indian]]s matches the descriptions of [[pterosaur]]s.<ref name="Today" /> − * Descriptions of [[dragon]]s are widespread and match descriptions of dinosaurs, suggesting that dragons were real creatures and were actually dinosaurs.<ref>Talk.Origins argues ([http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH712.html Claim CH712], ''TalkOrigins.org'') that the inclusion of dinosaurs within many cultures is based on the existence of fossils. Ancient people, unaware that the ancient fossils uncovered by erosion were of extinct animals, attributed the bones to living, magical creatures. This would explain the importance of dragons in Chinese culture - there are a large number of dinosaur (as well as non-dinosaur) fossils to be found in China. CreationWiki's response ([http://creationwiki.org/Dragons_were_dinosaurs Dragons were dinosaurs] (rebuttal of Talk.Origins' claim CH712)) is that the fossils reminded people of the legends, not that the fossils inspired the legends.</ref>+ − ** The World Book Encyclopedia states that: "The [[dragon]]s of legend are strangely like actual creatures that have lived in the past. They are much like the great reptiles [dinosaurs] which inhabited the earth long before man is supposed to have appeared on earth." <ref>Quoted in [http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ25.html What about the Dinosaurs?], ''CreationScience.com''</ref>. Dragons exist in the folklore of many European and Asian cultures.<ref name="WB2000">''Dragon'' entry in World Book Millennium 2000 CD ROM</ref> World Book Encyclopedia says, "In Europe, dragons are traditionally portrayed as ferocious beasts that represent the evils fought by human beings. But in Asia, especially in China and Japan, the animals are generally considered friendly creatures that ensure good luck and wealth."<ref Name="WB2000" />+ − ** Dragons appear in the flag of [[Wales]], in traditional [[China|Chinese]] [[New Years' Day]] celebrations, and in the Chinese [[calendar]]. Every other creature on the calendar is a real creature.+ + + − * That dinosaurs are not known from the fossil record above the [[Cretaceous]] strata is not reason to believe that they have not survived until more recent times.+ − ** Living specimens of orders of animals that were believed to have been extinct for millions of years have been found before, such as the Diatomyidae Squirrel <ref>[[Diatomyidae]] Squirrel [http://news.softpedia.com/news/They-Thought-It-Went-Extinct-11-Million-Years-Ago-19557.shtml]</ref>, the [[Wollemi Pine]] <ref>Wollemi Pine ''Biotechnology Australia'' [http://www.biotechnologyonline.gov.au/enviro/wollemi.cfm]</ref> and the [[Coelacanth]] <ref>Sulawesi Coelacanth. ''University Of California, Berkeley''[http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/coelacanth/coelacanths.html]</ref> <ref>More on the Coelacanth ''marinebio.org''[http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=54]</ref>.+ − * The recent dinosaur tissue find is a strong rebuttal of the claim that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. <ref>Carl Wieland, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3042 Still soft and stretchy], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref>+ − <!-- The Coelacanth are from a group that had previously been thought to have rudimentary limbs and so be the ancestor of land creatures, but this idea was dropped when living Coelacanths were discovered.<ref>[http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/coelacanth.html Coelacanth: the world’s oldest fish?]</ref> Biologists see this as merely a minor adjustment to the story of evolution. -->+ + + − + + − Creationists contend that the idea that birds are descendants of dinosaurs is not demonstrated by the evidence <ref>[http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3833/106/ Bird evolution?], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref> <ref>Andy McIntosh, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/540/ 100 years of airplanes—but these weren’t the first flying machines!], ''Creation'' vol. 26 No. 1 p. 44</ref>, and that the dinosaur-bird connection is even disputed by some evolutionists.+ + + + + − In his article, "Fifteen ways to refute materialistic bigotry", Dr. [[Jonathan Sarfati]] wrote regarding dinosaurs being descendants of birds:+ − <blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">+ − The same logic applies to the dinosaur-[[bird]] debate. It is perfectly in order for creationists to cite [[Alan Feduccia|Feduccia]]’s devastating criticism against the idea that birds evolved ‘ground up’ from running dinosaurs (the cursorial theory). But the dino-to-bird advocates counter with equally powerful arguments against Feduccia’s ‘trees-down’ (arboreal) theory. The evidence indicates that the critics are ''both'' right — birds did not evolve either from running dinos or from tree-living mini-crocodiles. In fact, birds did not evolve from non-birds at all! − <ref>Jonathan Sarfati, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/2610 15 ways to refute materialistic bigotry], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref> − </blockquote> − Creationists also cite the evolutionist [[Ernst Mayr]] who in 1942 stated the following:+ + + − “It must be admitted, however, that it is a considerable strain on one’s credulity to assume that finely balanced systems such as certain sense organs (the eye of vertebrates, or the bird’s feather) could be improved by random mutations." <ref>[http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/ReferencesandNotes10.html In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood], ''Center for Scientific Creation''</ref>+ + − + + + + − <blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">+ − "Of all the body coverings nature has designed, feathers are the most various and the most mysterious...The origin of feathers is a specific instance of the much more general question of the origin of evolutionary novelties--structures that have no clear antecedents in ancestral animals and no clear related structures (homologues) in contemporary relatives. Although evolutionary theory provides a robust explanation for the appearance of minor variations in the size and shape of creatures and their component parts, it does not yet give as much guidance for understanding the emergence of entirely new structures, including digits, limbs, eyes and feathers...." <ref>Michael Matthews, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2003/0313sciam.asp Scientific American admits creationists hit a sore spot], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref> <ref>[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CD7F6-B16F-1E41-89E0809EC588EEDF Which Came First, the Feather or the Bird?], ''Scientific American''</ref>+ − </blockquote> − Creationists also assert that the comparative anatomy analysis done by evolutionists comparing bird bones and dinosaur bones is flawed. <ref>Dr. David N. Menton, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0328discovery.asp "Ostrich-osaurus" Discovery?], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref>+ + + − + + − The view of [[Theory of evolution|evolutionists]] and others who accept the uniformitarian timescale is that dinosaurs existed on earth from 230 million years ago to 65 million years ago. In this view, the entire population of dinosaurs were wiped out by a mass extinction event (usually thought to be an asteroid) about 65 million years ago.+ − Of course this precludes humans and dinosaurs co-existing. − ====Extinction====+ − According to most scientists, close to 65 million years ago, at the end of the [[Cretaceous]] period, and the beginning of what is called the [[Tertiary]] period, an event occurred which has come to be known as the [[K-T Event]]. This event would have obliterated most life on Earth, plunging the world into something that would now be likened to global nuclear winter, through which few extant species could survive. Although these scientists dispute the nature of the K-T Event (selecting among any number of catastrophes that could have caused the significant global cooling that resulted), most find that the claimed K-T Event was caused by the collision of a massive asteroid with the Earth, the dust and debris from which would have shrouded the sky for thousands of years, cooling Earth considerably.<ref>Kevin O Pope, "Meteorite impact and the mass extinction of species at the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary," Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, available at [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/19/11028]</ref> According to this view, the dinosaurs did not survive this cataclysm.<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0823_020823_asteroid.html Prehistoric Asteroid "Killed Everything"], ''National Geographic''</ref> The dust from this impact is supposedly still visible as a line of metal of extraterrestrial origin and is often visible in sediment worldwide, occurring as a result of the vaporization and then fall of dust from the meteorite's impact, and its compression within the subsequent geological record.<ref>''Ibid''</ref> The crater is also visible.<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0307_030307_impactcrater.html "Dinosaur-Killer" Asteroid Crater Imaged for First Time], ''National Geographic''</ref>+ + + + − + + − The mass extinction of the dinosaurs removed a major food competitor, and predator, of smaller animals. As a result of a new "vacancy" in the food chain, following the [[K-T Event]], vast speciation occurred, as the evolutionary pressure of a new cold age propelled animal species to adapt or die out. According to this view, [[mammals]] were some of the main beneficiaries of this explosion: their fur allowed them to adapt to the cold, and their small size allowed them to conserve energy relative to the huge dinosaurs of the previous age.<ref>Bennet, Shostak, Jakotsky, "Life in the Universe," viewable at [http://www.amazon.com/Life-Universe-Jeffrey-Bennett/dp/0805385770]</ref>+ + + − + + − As a number of feathered fossils (claimed to be dinosaurs) have been discovered, and evolutionary scientists claim the similarity in the bone structure between birds and dinosaurs show that modern birds are a descendants of dinosaurs. This is often cited as an example of [[macroevolution]].<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1006_041006_feathery_dino.html New Dinosaur Discovered: T. Rex Cousin Had Feathers], ''National Geographic''</ref> Cladists place modern birds within the clade dinosauria, meaning that they consider all bird species today as, technically, dinosaurs.<ref>[http://tolweb.org/Dinosauria/14883/1999.01.01 Tree of Life Web Project.] 1999. Dinosauria. Version 01 January 1999 (temporary). Accessed 30 May 2007.</ref>+ − ==Dinosaur fossils and Human Fossils and Geological Strata ==+ − It is sometimes asserted that if human bones aren’t found with dinosaur bones, then dinosaurs and man didn’t live together.<ref name="HaD">Hodge, Bodie, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v1/n1/humans-and-dinosaurs If humans and dinosaurs lived together, why don’t we find human fossils with dinosaur fossils?] ''Answers'' 1(1):52, May 2006.</ref> − Creation scientists point out that this is a false assumption; if human bones aren’t found buried with dinosaur bones, it simply means they weren't buried together.<ref name="HaD" /> − Creationists note that the fossil record contains mainly marine organisms and that a small sliver of the fossil record contains vertebrates and thus assert that we shouldn't expect to find many human fossils at all.<ref name="HaD" />+ − Moreover, as the biblical [[Great Flood|Flood]] would be a marine catastrophe, it would be expected that marine fossils would dominate the fossil record. This is in fact what we find.<ref name="NAB">Hodge, Bodie, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/pdfs/SampleChapter/10-2-267.pdf Why Don’t We Find Human & Dinosaur Fossils Together?] (chapter 13 of the New Answers Book), 2006.</ref>+ + + − Approximately 70% of the Earth is covered in salt water which would also explain the dominance of marine fossils. In addition, creation scientists assert there may have been a small pre-flood human population and that massive amounts of flood sediment are why we haven’t found human fossils in pre-biblical flood sediments.<ref name="NAB" />+ − Also, creation scientists point out that we don't find human bones buried with [[coelacanth]]s yet humans and coelacanths coexist today.<ref name="HaD" />+ + + − + − {{reflist|2}}+ − + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
no edit summary
{{essay|AmesG}}
__NOTOC__
==Highlights of the history of dinosaur paleontology==
== An Introductory Word by AmesG ==
Most point-by-point essays can stand and fall of their own accord. I believe that, like others, this essay also speaks for itself. However, the importance of the topic deserves a quick note with which to begin. While no ''less'' of a hack-job than any of his other articles, Ken DeMeyer's arguments here deserve greater attention because they are unfortunately common, and damning in their implications. So here is something to keep in mind, plain and simple.
Ken's argument, here, boils down to this:
# Evolution suggests man is a base, stupid animal.
# Evil people interpret this to mean that man sometimes ''deserves'' to be killed, like a base, stupid animal.
# Evil people act on these instincts due, in greater than 50% part, to evolutionary ideas.
# Evolution is somehow responsible for these people's interpretations.
'''''NONE''''' of the above steps in this "logical" reasoning are valid. The weakest link is (4), which suggests that evolution, as a theory, is responsible for the absurd extremists that it somehow generates. However, I suggest that ''no theory is responsible for its extremists.'' These extremists alone feel the blood on their hands, and the guilt on their souls. If theories could be held responsible for the unforeseeable results generated, and abandoned as such, most every theory - scientific, religious, or otherwise - would have been abandoned today as "morally bankrupt."
Christianity, especially, would be gone. Christianity has led men, throughout the ages, to assume the role of jihadist (no different than the Muslim terrorist) and kill in the name of Christ. Ken's reasoning would suggest that all of Christianity bears this blood, just as much as the actual murderers, and that the theory deserves abrogation, despite any resonant truth to it, by virtue of this idea-guilt.
The idea is too absurd to even rebut. It is self-evident. This absurd idea, though, underlies Ken's entire hypothesis. Since this essential leg fails, his argument is without merit and collapses wholesale.
Now, onto the quote-mining!
== Different Perspectives ==
== Point by Point to the Companion Article, [[cp:Social Effects of the Theory of Evolution|a masterwork]] by [[cp:user:Conservative|Ken DeMeyer]] ==
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===Creationary Perspective===
<h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:135%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #000000;text-align:center;color:#f6f7ff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Conservative's Original Essay</h2>
This article originates as ''not'' an essay, but actually as a full article! Clearly, Ken DeMeyer thinks that the "facts" of his case are so far beyond reproach as to take them out of the scope of opinion. Ken DeMeyer writes, or rather, copies with sparse analysis:
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<h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#000000;font-size:135%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #000000;text-align:center;color:#f6f7ff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">AmesG's Response</h2>
However, what we're looking at here is little more than your average quote-dump, a typical strategy of Ken DeMeyer and other Conservapedia "writers." The quotes can be attacked on their own force, and for the conclusions drawn from them. This hit job falls apart thusly:
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==1==
There have been great social ramifications of the acceptance of the [[Theory of evolution]]. H.G. Wells, who was an evolutionist, wrote in his work the Outline of History the following:
{{cquote|The new biological science was bringing nothing constructive as yet to replace the old moral stand-bys. A real de-moralization ensued....
Man, they decided, is a social animal like the Indian hunting dog. He is much more than a dog but this they did not see. And just as in a pack it, is necessary to bully and subdue the younger and weaker for the general good, so it seemed right to them that the big dogs of the human pack should bully and subdue. Hence a new scorn for the ideas of democracy that had ruled the earlier nineteenth century, find a revived admiration for the overbearing and the cruel. <ref>http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/sherwood/Wells-Outline/Text/Part-II.htm</ref>}}
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==1==
Selective quoting is triumphant in this misunderstanding of Wells' argument about the actual effects of evolution. Rather than blaming any moral corruption following Darwin's revelation on Darwin, or on evolution, in fact Wells places the blame squarely on orthodoxy. He notes (correctly, I would argue) that theologians, rather than realizing that evolution and religion were wholly reconcilable, instead declared the two to be in opposition, said that morals were therefore dead, and by naming it, ''themselves'' incited the whole moral race-to-the-bottom of social Darwinism.<ref>Ken carefully neglects this quote, from slightly earlier in the work:
{{cquote|The Christian theologians were neither wise enough nor mentally nimble enough to accept the new truth, modify their formulae, and insist upon the living and undiminished vitality of the religious reality those formulae had hithefrto sufficed to express. For the discovery of man's descent from sub-human forms does not even remotely touch the teaching of the Kingdom of Heaven. Yet priests and bishops raged at Darwin; foolish attempts were made to suppress Darwinian literature and to insult and discredit the exponents of the new views. There was much wild talk of the "antagonism" of religion and science....
It was the orthodox theology that the new scientific advances had compromised, but the angry theologians declared that it was religion.}}</ref> In brief, according to Wells, orthodox fundamentalists ''created'' the false religion/science dichotomy, and in so doing, compromised morality, science, and religion, all at the same time! He places the blame for the creation of social Darwinists squarely on fundamentalists, whom he argues created the entire controversy because they were not "mentally nimble enough" to see that there ''was'' no controversy.
Wells has the utmost respect for ''both'' religion ''and'' Darwinism, and seeks to explain in this section that the evaporation of morals was both imagined, and short-lived, and in fact describes social Darwinism as "the first crude popular misconception of Darwinism," which society quickly moved beyond. Thus dispelling Ken's misquotation, we should bear in mind Wells' argument about how religion and evolution are reconcilable.<ref>Ken fails to answer this argument [http://www.ratio<!--------------->nalwiki.com/wiki/User_talk:Newton/Archive1#Social_Effects_of_Evolution here]. I assume, therefore, that he concedes the error, and I win. Yay for Ames!</ref>
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==2==
In regards to a demoralization ensuing in a specific portion of history, many works have been written demonstrating that evolutionary ideas were an integral part of Adolph Hitler's Nazism.
In regards to Adolph Hitler and the theory of evolution Richard Hickman wrote in his work ''Biocreation'' the following:
{{cquote|It is perhaps no coincidence that Adolf Hitler was a firm believer in and preacher of evolutionism. Whatever the deeper, profound, complexities of his psychosis, it is certain that [the concept of struggle was important for]. . . his book, Mein Kampf clearly set forth a number of evolutionary ideas, particularly those emphasizing struggle, survival of the fittest and extermination of the weak to produce a better society. <ref>http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v08n3p24.htm</ref>}}
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==== Dinosaurs and birds ====
==2==
Ken again suffers from an overgeneralization. Apart from neglecting to give us a citation to a primary work (a popular tactic of his - Ken seems to be more of a quote collector than an actual researcher, a real failing on his part), Ken's argument as a whole suffers from classifying Nazi perversion of Darwinian theories with more general Darwinism, and real science. Ken, and the surely non-biased site "Creationism.Org," both overlook that Nazism and Hitler also depended on concepts like "nationalism," and "pride in country," and "German-ness" to justify their reign of terror. By Ken's logic, Germany is suspect as a concept and a country, and ever shall be. So is nationalism. Never one to think through the implications of his arguments, Ken proves too much with this argument.
As a final point, it's a general truth that trying to argue against your opponent by comparing him to Hitler is an admission of defeat, the loser's last refuge in a debate. This type of hyperbole, in my mind, deprives any viewpoint (liberal or conservative) of any compelling force. Ken's no different.
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==3==
B. Wilder-Smith wrote:
{{cquote|One of the central planks in Nazi theory and doctrine was …evolutionary theory [and] … that all biology had evolved … upward, and that … less evolved types … should be actively eradicated [and] … that natural selection could and should be actively aided, and therefore [the Nazis] instituted political measures to eradicate … Jews, and … blacks, whom they considered as “underdeveloped”.’ <ref>http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i2/nazi.asp</ref>}}
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==3==
I hate to say, "see above," but, well, "see above." Further, Darwin and evolution make no general statement as to a "Great Chain of Being," an otherwise medeival belief that suggests that one form of life is wholly and objectively better than another. Rather, the most that Darwinism can say is that one form of life, having evolved from an earlier form, is more suited to particular circumstances than the previous. Sometimes, sacrifices are made in evolution: the blind fish loses eyesight, in evolving from a sighted fish, to conserve energy and adapt to a different environment. It's not better than a sighted fish; it's just different, and ''better evolved for the circumstances''.
The March 2003 issue of ''Scientific American'' is also cited by creationists:
The fact that some zealous morons misinterpret Darwinism to suggest objective "better-ness" through evolution, that organisms at every turn come one step closer to the Form of the Good, is just an overextension of Platonism , misapplied towards genocidal aims. The over-stretch is no more damning of Darwinism than it is of Platonism.
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==4==
George Stein concurs and wrote in the journal American Scientist the following:
{{cquote|Hitler's views are rather straightforward German social Darwinism of a type widely known and accepted throughout Germany and which, more importantly, was considered by most Germans, scientists included, to be scientifically true. More recent scholarship on national socialism and Hitler has begun to realize that... [Darwin's theory] was the specific characteristic of Nazism. National socialist "biopolicy," [was] a policy based on a mystical-biological belief in radical inequality, a [[monistic]], antitranscendent moral [[nihilism]] based on the eternal struggle for existence and the survival of the fittest as the law of nature, and the consequent use of state power for a public policy of natural selection. - George Stein, "Biological Science and the Roots of Nazism." American Scientist, Vol. 76, No. 1, Jan-Feb., 1988, pp. 50-58. <ref>http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1992/PSCF6-92Bergman.html</ref>}}
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===Evolutionary Perspective===
==4==
We must thank Ken for citing, again, an authority that seems to cut against him. As Stein is cited as saying by the same suspicious article, {{cquote| There is little doubt that the history of ethnocentrism, racism, nationalism, and xenophobia has also been a history of the use of science and the actions of scientists in support of these ideas and social movements. In many cases it is clear that science was used merely as raw material or evidence by ideologically interested political actors as proof of preconceived notions. Most contemporary sociobiologists and students of biopolitics would argue that all attempts to use science in this manner are, in fact, mere pseudoscience.... [but] if the scientists of the day used the science of the day to advance racism, it is simply a form of Kuhnian amnesia or historical whitewash to dismiss concern with a possible contemporary abuse of science by a claim that the past abuse was mere pseudoscience.}}<ref>Farther down on the previous citation, which Ken cites to in an attempt to prove his "point." Admittedly, Stein comes down hard on modern scientists who would similarly abuse science, and distinguish their abuse from others by labeling previous abuses "mere pseudoscience." But Stein ''does not say that all science is culpable'', rather, he says that the people abusing the science are culpable! Anyone misusing science for political ends is, in Stein's eyes, corrupt and suspect, no matter what the era.</ref>
Ken's authority therefore recognizes that the use of science to advance political goals is mere pseudoscience and abuse of the discipline of science... even though it may, unfortunately, be all too commonplace. Stein proves Ration<!-------------->alWiki's point: Darwinism as science is distinguishable from Darwinism as ''political theory''. As Stein describes, the element that transforms value-neutral evolutionary science into morally culpable social Darwinism is a moral failing traceable solely to the person misapplying the science - not traceable to the science itself. To write it in a chemical formula...
:Evolutionary theory -- (evil humans) --> evil perversion of evolutionary theory.
The evil only comes in through the secondary, non-scientific interpretation. The moral culpability of Hitler's application of evolutionary theory is traceable only to Hitler, not (through some perversion of "logic") to Darwin!
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====An Explosion of new species ====
==5==
Even the staunch evolutionist Stephen Gould admitted the following:
{{cquote|Haeckel was the chief apostle of evolution in Germany.... His evolutionary racism; his call to the German people for racial purity and unflinching devotion to a "just" state; his belief that harsh, inexorable laws of evolution ruled human civilization and nature alike, conferring upon favored races the right to dominate others; the irrational mysticism that had always stood in strange communion with his brave words about objective science - all contributed to the rise of Nazism. - Stephen J. Gould, "Ontogeny and Phylogeny," Belknap Press: Cambridge MA, 1977, pp.77-78). <ref>http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/social.html</ref>}}
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====Dinosaurs and Birds====
==5==
To sum up, in the words of [[user:Imroy|Imroy]]:
{{cquote|The fact that Hitler and his Nazi party drew on Evolution is a red herring. [[Ann Coulter]] has said that all "[[liberals]]" should be killed. She also claims to be "conservative" and a "christian", and that all other conservatives and christians should think like her. But do all conservatives and christians believe that all liberals should be killed? No. Ann is just an extremist nutcase. As was Hitler.
To tar the entire theory of evolution because of one psychopath's exploitation of it is simply intellectually dishonest. Hitler used evolution to explain and somehow legitimise his extreme ideas about eugenics and racial extermination. That didn't make his ideas any less evil, just easier for the crowds to nod along with his rants and carry out the wishes of the Nazi party. And it didn't make evolution somehow to blame for his ideas.}}
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==6==
In addition to greatly influencing Hitler's Nazism, evolutionary ideas influenced the thinking of the [[Communism|Communists]]. <ref>http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=276</ref> Karl Marx wrote in a letter the following, ""Darwin's book is very important and serves me as a basis in natural science for the class struggle in history." Darwin's ideas also influenced the thinking of Engels, Vladimir Lenin, and Joseph Stalin. <ref>http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=276</ref>
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==References==
==6==
[[user:Gulik|Guilk]] writes of Social Darwinism, and its link, if any, to real Darwinism:
[[Category:Dinosaurs]]
{{cquote|To a scientist, it's sheer foolishness to try to draw '''moral''' lessons from '''natural''' phenomena. Most of the so-called "Social Darwinists" were simply looking for justification for their already on-going exploitation of the poor. If they hadn't found it by misreading Darwin, they would have had to go back to misreading the Bible.}}
He hits the nail on the head. The writer of a text can't be held liable for the creative, even genocidal, misinterpretations of the original text. And to reiterate a main theme of my own writings (see [[Sam_Brownback:_What_I_Think_About_Evolution|my reply]] to ''wunderkind'' Sam Brownback's 2007 ''Times'' op-ed), science offers ''no moral lessons'', just as [[user:Gulik|Gulik]] says. Most of the objections to evolutionary science from creationists seem to relate to the argument that evolution somehow co-opts the moral role of philosophy & religion. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Evolution offers a ''how''; some people may try to infer a ''why'' from the bare facts, but those people are either looking too hard, or too easily offended, or (most likely) both.
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==7==
Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn was asked to account for the great tragedies that occurred under the brutal communist.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn offered the following explanation:
{{cquote|Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen [[Russia]]: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.''
Since then I have spend well-nigh fifty years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened." <ref>http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=276</ref>}}
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==7==
Except in the word "revolution," this quote never mentions, nor is applicable to, the concept of the theory of evolution. Rather, it seeks to blame all tragedies of the world on godlessness, which is [[theistic evolution|not quite the same]] as evolution.
Now, I have the utmost respect for [[wp:Alexander Solzhenitsyn|Solzhenitsyn]], but I have to take issue with him on his argument about the dangers of godlessness. Solzhenitsyn seems to think that atheism (and especially the atheism inherent in communism) renders mankind morally adrift, without any guiding principles whatsoever, and prone to the worst forms of immorality.
Atheism has no such result. While I do not contest the evils of communism under the USSR, and I do not contest that religion has the amazing capacity to (when practiced and taught well, as is unfortunately rare) provide moral guidance to those who otherwise would not be able to find their own morality,<ref>I would also like to note, I do not believe that the kind of religion practiced by Ken is the kind that has the power to lift up the otherwise morally directionless. Rather, I think it often has the opposite effect! Dogmatic allegiance to the ''literal meaning'' of moral precepts (the shallowest examination, truly) fosters neither the kind of independent thought, nor the kind of deep-seated moral compass, which is conducive to the well-reasoned and principled practice of ethics.</ref> religion is hardly the only source of morality. In fact, if religion were the only source of morality, I think it would speak quite poorly for the human race as a whole, and demean the dignity inherent in humanity. Based on my personal knowledge of atheists, secular humanists, agnostics, etc., I have found that the areligious are often more moral than the allegedly quite religious. The precepts of the Ten Commandments are much more basic to human nature than some book, and the abandonment of the book that espouses the rules does not necessitate the abandonment of the morality that the book codifies!
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==8==
Evolutionary ideas also contributed to the scourge of [[racism]]. <ref>http://www.icr.org/article/55/</ref><ref>http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/racism.asp</ref> Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley contributed greatly to the theory of evolution broadly being accepted in the 1900s. <ref>http://www.icr.org/article/55/</ref> Darwin, Huxley, and the 19th century evolutionists were racist in sentiment and believed the white race was superior. <ref>http://www.icr.org/article/55/</ref>
John C. Burnham wrote in the journal ''Science'' the following:
{{cquote|After 1859, the evolutionary schema raised additional questions, particularly whether or not Afro-Americans could survive competition with their white near-relations. The momentous answer was a resounding no.... The African was inferior — he represented the missing link between ape and Teuton." <ref>http://www.icr.org/article/55/</ref>}}
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==8==
I suspect that this quote from John Burnham is something of a quote-mine, but, since Ken only hands us the quotation from the laudable Institution of Creation Research, and not a primary source citation, I am not presented with the tools to criticize any such selective citation. I think, though, that this article has proven enough to suggest where Ken quotes a study, the idea that it has been unceremoniously altered should be a [[rebuttable presumption]].
That said, I'll take Burnham's quote at face value. A basic assumption to his argument is that ''the evolutionary schema'' itself, by its own force, suggests moral and racial conclusions. It does no such thing, at least not of its own accord. Evolutionary theory makes objective, falsifiable, scientific conclusions of fact: science is utterly powerless to make any conclusions of moral value or moral weight, and thus, if the evolutionary "schema" does make racist conclusions, it only does so through the hands of a racist interpreter. This corrupting influence is to blame; not the knowledge itself.
As a conclusory remark, it is self-evident that knowledge is powerful. The power of knowledge, though, is prone to abuse. Anyone with a political or social agenda can take a fact and, with the appropriate amount of spin, leverage it to improper and evil ends. All knowledge is amenable to this corruption. Scientific knowledge, unfortunately, may be particularly prone to it. However, the fact that knowledge is abused, or capable of abuse, should not make the pursuit of knowledge ''moot'', nor should it make any scientific conclusions suspect. To assume otherwise would be to halt all scientific progress and all creative thought in all of western society, for truly, all knowledge and all thought hold potential for abuse by the weak-minded and the evil.
Truly, the strange suspicion of science held by Ken and the Institute of Creation Research would, at its extreme, throw us back to the Stone Age.
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==9==
Australian atheist and philosopher David Stove argues that evolutionary ideas were influential in regards to the sexual revolution. In his work entitled ''Darwinian Fairytales: Selfish Genes, Errors of Heredity and Other Fables of Evolution'', Stove states that The “new religion of selfish genes” classifies all humans as biological errors. <ref>http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18094</ref> Stove further states that “the great sexual emancipators after 1859” (Ellis, Freud, Lenin, Stopes, Sanger, Mead, Wilhelm Reich]) "were all Darwinians" and that [[genetics]] supplied "the new religionists" their gods ... the [[chromosome]]s of the sex cells.” <ref>http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18094</ref>
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==9==
Again, I suspect that this quote (in context) would cut against Ken's argument. But his basic argument here - that Darwinism fostered the sexual enlightenment - does not seem to cut against Darwinism, unless one assumes that the sexual enlightenment is ''per se'' bad. Since Ken fails to prove this point, he fails to prove how Darwinism is in this case bad. Further, despite Stove's statement<ref>(I reiterate my opinion that Stove never stated that humans are "biological errors," and again, I suspect quote-mining)</ref> that humans are "biological errors," his opinion is hardly conclusory as to the actual meaning of the theory of evolution. While Ken loves arguments from authority, the words of a philosopher are hardly outcome-determinative.
To meet the issue head on, though, as I have explained at length [[Sam Brownback: What I Think About Evolution|here]], evolution does not say that humans are ''biological errors'' in the pejorative sense implied in the term, or in the actual science of how evolution works. This value-laden characterization of Darwin's theory is not compelled by the science, but grafted on by zealous anti-science partisans. It's a [[straw man]] argument, and this anti-evolutionist tripe can be cursorily dismissed as such.
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== Conclusion ==
The foregoing should prove that evolution cannot be held "responsible" for any of the evils of racism, and should also prove that the arguments which attempt to hold evolution as culpable are just the sorts of anti-intellectual, Luddite, backwards-looking, [http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/234.html Miniver Cheevy-esque] nonsense we've come to expect from creationists, as they seek desperately to fend off scientific truths that don't actually contradict religion, but nonetheless scare them witless.
One final word. Assume all of Ken's "essay" is correct. Assume evolution did cause racism, and the Holocaust, and (why not?) the tragedy of September 11th. That still doesn't make the theory of evolution scientifically false.
And this is one of Ken's ''best'' arguments, too! Really makes you think, huh.
== References ==
<references/>
[[Category:Conservapedia]]
[[Category:Side-by-side articles]]
[[Category:Assessing pseudoscience]]
[[Category:Pseudoscience and the culture wars]]
[[Category:Best of Rati<!----------------->onalWiki]]
[[Category:Best of Conservapedia]]