Changes

: I don't know how the uncertainty principle allows for free will.  It allows for ''randomness'', which is certainly different from ''determinism,'' but how does ''randomness'' imply that beings can make free, deliberate choices?  [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 19:35, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

: I don't know how the uncertainty principle allows for free will.  It allows for ''randomness'', which is certainly different from ''determinism,'' but how does ''randomness'' imply that beings can make free, deliberate choices?  [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 19:35, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

::It's up for debate in physics. Before quantum mechanics, physicists claimed that it would be possible, in principal, if you knew all the parameters of every particle in the universe and had enough processing power, to calculate and predict the future - therefore no free will. However, since the advent of quantum mechanics, we now know that we can't know all the parameters of even one particle let alone all of them. Now, of course, our ignorance doesn't necessarily mean that these particles don't have a determined future. But most physicists now believe that the probability in quantum mechanics means that the universe is not deterministic even in principal and so the door remains open for free will as a fundamental aspect of the universe. But as I said, it's still debated. [[User:Ajkgordon|Ajkgordon]] 14:33, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

::It's up for debate in physics. Before quantum mechanics, physicists claimed that it would be possible, in principal, if you knew all the parameters of every particle in the universe and had enough processing power, to calculate and predict the future - therefore no free will. However, since the advent of quantum mechanics, we now know that we can't know all the parameters of even one particle let alone all of them. Now, of course, our ignorance doesn't necessarily mean that these particles don't have a determined future. But most physicists now believe that the probability in quantum mechanics means that the universe is not deterministic even in principal and so the door remains open for free will as a fundamental aspect of the universe. But as I said, it's still debated. [[User:Ajkgordon|Ajkgordon]] 14:33, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

::: Agreed ... but I don't understand why the potential existence of ''random'' events implies that people have ''free will.''  For me to freely ''choose'' something, there must be something ''more'' than randomness and determinism ... there must be some force ... call it a ''soul'' ... that is at least somewhat free of physical causation and randomness, and ''chooses'' things ... [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 15:36, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

::: Agreed ... but I don't understand why the potential existence of ''random'' events implies that people have ''free will.''  If a choice I make is prompted by some random quantum event, it's not ''free'' -- it's partly random, and partly determined, but certainly no ''choice.''  For me to freely ''choose'' something, there must be something ''more'' than randomness and determinism ... there must be some force ... call it a ''soul'' ... that is at least somewhat free of physical causation and randomness, and ''chooses'' things ... [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 15:36, 24 September 2007 (EDT)