Changes

::::One thing we do know is that the models aren't built from first principles.  They are mathematical models, that attempt to predict future climate change by fitting data to mathematical functions and extrapolating.   

::::One thing we do know is that the models aren't built from first principles.  They are mathematical models, that attempt to predict future climate change by fitting data to mathematical functions and extrapolating.   

::::I can't say I know definitively that they're using logarithms, because I've never seen them publish their models.  I can say the evidence suggests otherwise.  Firstly, I'd think it odd if every model-builder is using a logistical curve, but they uniformly say they're using a logarithm.  Surely someone would actually use the right word?  Secondly, logarithms are one of the four basic curves that are normally used to build mathematical models; logistical curves aren't on that list.  Finally, while both curves would tend to fit the data pretty well for lower levels of greenhouse effect, they would diverge at higher levels.  In fact, the models have over-predicted recent warming, and had to be tweaked downwards--that is, they've behaved exactly as you would predict if they'd mistakenly chosen a log function. [[User:QBeam]]

::::I can't say I know definitively that they're using logarithms, because I've never seen them publish their models.  I can say the evidence suggests otherwise.  Firstly, I'd think it odd if every model-builder is using a logistical curve, but they uniformly say they're using a logarithm.  Surely someone would actually use the right word?  Secondly, logarithms are one of the four basic curves that are normally used to build mathematical models; logistical curves aren't on that list.  Finally, while both curves would tend to fit the data pretty well for lower levels of greenhouse effect, they would diverge at higher levels.  In fact, the models have over-predicted recent warming, and had to be tweaked downwards--that is, they've behaved exactly as you would predict if they'd mistakenly chosen a log function. [[User:QBeam]] 2:25pm Nov. 2, 2007 (EDT)

:*The problem is, you are assuming good faith.  Unfortunately on the Internet that is at the top of the charts for never happening.  QBeam was stringing together buzz words and silly science in the hope they would lend creditability to his/her post, a fact you just proved, HelpJazz.  --<font color="#1E90FF" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]</font>^{<font color="DC143C">[[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]]</font>} 01:01, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

:*The problem is, you are assuming good faith.  Unfortunately on the Internet that is at the top of the charts for never happening.  QBeam was stringing together buzz words and silly science in the hope they would lend creditability to his/her post, a fact you just proved, HelpJazz.  --<font color="#1E90FF" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]</font>^{<font color="DC143C">[[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]]</font>} 01:01, 20 October 2007 (EDT)