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→Legitimate views: Are you a "wiser brother" too?
Of course you do think to be one of the wiser brethren. Otherwise you wouldn't defend you position. But Augustine statement is a warning, and as with any warning one should try to assess if the warning applies to oneself. I might make factual mistakes in my arguments, but even if I did, I do not use the scripture to defend my position, so his warning doesn't really apply to me. Whether it applies to you, you may decide for yourself. Your argument is that it does only not apply to you, because you are right on the scientific part. If that is true, you are set. [[User:Order|Order]] 21:14, 18 December 2007 (EST)
Of course you do think to be one of the wiser brethren. Otherwise you wouldn't defend you position. But Augustine statement is a warning, and as with any warning one should try to assess if the warning applies to oneself. I might make factual mistakes in my arguments, but even if I did, I do not use the scripture to defend my position, so his warning doesn't really apply to me. Whether it applies to you, you may decide for yourself. Your argument is that it does only not apply to you, because you are right on the scientific part. If that is true, you are set. [[User:Order|Order]] 21:14, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:"''Using your literal interpretation it might.''": Well, that's kinda the point, isn't it? You seemed to be suggesting that it ''wasn't'', although perhaps I misunderstood you.
: I'm not following your point about astronomy. I would say that we observe it in the present, and I do agree that the creation account was written in the past and that we read it in the present. And that's the point, that we see these things ''in the present'', and we cannot observe the past. Astronomy is a bit of a special case, though.
: I guess that it depends on what you mean by "wiser brethren". You must be too, by your definition, as you too are defending your position. Which begs the question, though, wiser than who?
: I'm not suggesting that Augustine's warning applies to you, because he was talking about Christians (do you consider yourself one?). I maintain that it doesn't apply to me (on this issue) for two reasons, although they likely boil down to the same reason: One, that he is talking about observations in the ''present'', not accounts of events in the past as we are discussing, and the other because he is talking about "nonsense", contrasted with things that non-Christians know to be "certain from reason and experience". You don't know that the secular view of origins is true ''from experience'', nor from formal logic (which is what, I suggest, he is referring to by "reason"). Instead, the secular view that you hold to is based on (materialistic/naturalistic) ''ideology''.
: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:10, 20 December 2007 (EST)
===Motivations===
===Motivations===