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→Atheist Science
: I've already answered about eyewitnesses to the eyewitnesses, but I'll add that you don't need eyewitnesses to the eyewitnesses. Nobody expects that. You need (a) eyewitnesses, (b) corroboration (i.e. more than one eyewitness), and (c) credibility, which can be determined in a number of ways. See [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4994 here] for a discussion on this, not exactly to do with your questions about the gospels, but close.
: I've already answered about eyewitnesses to the eyewitnesses, but I'll add that you don't need eyewitnesses to the eyewitnesses. Nobody expects that. You need (a) eyewitnesses, (b) corroboration (i.e. more than one eyewitness), and (c) credibility, which can be determined in a number of ways. See [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4994 here] for a discussion on this, not exactly to do with your questions about the gospels, but close.
: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:57, 20 December 2007 (EST)
: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:57, 20 December 2007 (EST)
Oh, we do not only have to rely on anecdotal evidence, there have been studies into false testimonies, false memories, and how and when they happen. And that the TV is a different medium doesn't matter for our case. The problem is not the speed, but the fact that witnesses talk to people, and all of your eyewitness reports were written and edited way after the event, so quite some time to talk to other people. But agreed this game of finding site is a bit cumbersome. You can keeping quoting the cr4eationweb, but I can as easily point you to say Bishop Spong. As I said in the beginning, I see litle use in repeating the apologist arguments of the last 2000 years. That they exist is sufficient proof for me that your view isn't the only valid one..
You really stick to this idea that you cannot make a scientific theory about the past. The big bang theory might be wrong but it predicted fairly accurately background radiation which can be measured now. The theory that there was signifcant trade in Europe way before the Romans, might be wrong, but is supported by archeological evidence, which can be dug up now. The theory that certain indian tribes in the US are offsring of Jews, led to the prediction that you should find genetic traces, and that theory has been proven to be wrong by genetic analysis in the present. There is still nothing that keep science from making statements about the past. Your view of science is that it has to take place in a lab, but most science doesn't.
But lets stick to your testability criterion for a while, since as I said I don't want to convince you that I am right, but to concinve you that you might be wrong. Can you give me a repeatable test that we could run to distinguish between the authenticity of the gospels of Luke, Thomas and Joseph Smith? [[User:Order|Order]] 10:48, 20 December 2007 (EST)
===Legitimate views===
===Legitimate views===