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Talk:Examples of Bias in Wikipedia (view source)
Revision as of 12:34, January 21, 2008
, 12:34, January 21, 2008→Holy cow! Elkman blocked everyone who uses my IP range
:::::::::::: And both of these tribes typically held theist beliefs. Thanks. Theism was often even the motivation for cannibalism. Cannibalism as it was practiced was certainly not according to the golden rule. Or would you like to live in fear that you end up as dinner, whenever you meet a group from another people? I guess not. So, you do it by talking to them if you get the chance. What is your alternative? Telling them about your deity, instead? We can expand on this, but your example shows quite nicely, that having a deity doesn't guarantee any behavior. [[User:Order|Order]] 05:44, 21 January 2008 (EST)
:::::::::::: And both of these tribes typically held theist beliefs. Thanks. Theism was often even the motivation for cannibalism. Cannibalism as it was practiced was certainly not according to the golden rule. Or would you like to live in fear that you end up as dinner, whenever you meet a group from another people? I guess not. So, you do it by talking to them if you get the chance. What is your alternative? Telling them about your deity, instead? We can expand on this, but your example shows quite nicely, that having a deity doesn't guarantee any behavior. [[User:Order|Order]] 05:44, 21 January 2008 (EST)
::::::::::::: ''Of course'' it depends on the deity, and what he says. And yes, they did live in fear that they would end up as dinner (although it wasn't "whenever you meet a group from another people"), but that's the point: it didn't stop them. Telling them that there is a Golden Rule is not going to stop them. That's an arbitrary imposition on them, which they have no obligation to accept. But telling them that their actions are wrong ''according to the God who made them'' does give them an obligation to accept. Of course, you do have to convince them that what you are telling them is the truth, and having free will they can choose to accept or reject that standard, but there is a logical basis for accepting that standard. (And, of course, Christian missionary influence has led to the abolition of cannibalism in many places.) The Golden Rule was, of course, a rule given by that Creator. But if it wasn't, it's just another arbitrary rule that provides no logical basis (as distinct from a self-preserving one, in this case) for them to follow that rule. The point is, when it comes to right and wrong, the only absolute basis for it is the standards of the Creator. Because He is the Creator, He can set the rules. (The fact that people have the ability to reject those rules does not change this.) If there is no Creator, the rules are set by human beings according to their opinions. There is nothing ''intrinsic'' or ''inherent'' about an action that makes it right or wrong other than whether or not it conforms to the standard of ''the One who has the authority to set the rules''. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 06:18, 21 January 2008 (EST)
::::::::::::: ''Of course'' it depends on the deity, and what he says. And yes, they did live in fear that they would end up as dinner (although it wasn't "whenever you meet a group from another people"), but that's the point: it didn't stop them. Telling them that there is a Golden Rule is not going to stop them. That's an arbitrary imposition on them, which they have no obligation to accept. But telling them that their actions are wrong ''according to the God who made them'' does give them an obligation to accept. Of course, you do have to convince them that what you are telling them is the truth, and having free will they can choose to accept or reject that standard, but there is a logical basis for accepting that standard. (And, of course, Christian missionary influence has led to the abolition of cannibalism in many places.) The Golden Rule was, of course, a rule given by that Creator. But if it wasn't, it's just another arbitrary rule that provides no logical basis (as distinct from a self-preserving one, in this case) for them to follow that rule. The point is, when it comes to right and wrong, the only absolute basis for it is the standards of the Creator. Because He is the Creator, He can set the rules. (The fact that people have the ability to reject those rules does not change this.) If there is no Creator, the rules are set by human beings according to their opinions. There is nothing ''intrinsic'' or ''inherent'' about an action that makes it right or wrong other than whether or not it conforms to the standard of ''the One who has the authority to set the rules''. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 06:18, 21 January 2008 (EST)
::::::::::::::The alternative though, Philip, is that man created God in his image and wrote the rules up according to beliefs that society has built up. Some of them for good evolutionary reasons such as look after your family/tribe members; others for power. Through centuries of social and religious development, these rules become inherent in society, e.g. it's bad to kill, steal, etc. While a prehistoric man might not have any moral compunction not to kill a competing male for resources and is therefore amoral by our standards, that same man transported and brought up in our society would be indoctrinated into our rules, either by convention or law. Claiming that man has morals and the only source of them must be God is, in my humble opinion, one of the weakest "proofs of God's existence" arguments. After all, did the tribe of Israel go around murdering and raping each other before the Ten Commandments? Of course not. They wouldn't have got very far if they did. [[User:Ajkgordon|Ajkgordon]] 07:34, 21 January 2008 (EST)
:Um, dude. ''You blocked yourself for your actions.'' That's like a deputy locking himself up with the jail key for shooting a roomful of innocent people to catch a suspected jaywalker. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 23:22, 31 December 2007 (EST)
:Um, dude. ''You blocked yourself for your actions.'' That's like a deputy locking himself up with the jail key for shooting a roomful of innocent people to catch a suspected jaywalker. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 23:22, 31 December 2007 (EST)