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Talk:Transitional form (view source)
Revision as of 01:46, January 30, 2008
, 01:46, January 30, 2008→Recent quote: How do you prove a transtional form?
::And I must ask, how do you prove that they aren't transitional? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 19:49, 29 January 2008 (EST)
::And I must ask, how do you prove that they aren't transitional? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 19:49, 29 January 2008 (EST)
::: If it really was a conspiracy, then I wouldn't look like a nutter for claiming persecution. So how does it not being a conspiracy change that?
::: Perhaps the question should be, how do you prove that they ''are'' transitional? If creature 1 has features A, B, C, D, E, and F, and creature 2 has features A, B, C, G, H, and J, then we find a creature with features A, B, C, D, H, and J, does that mean that it's transitional between 1 and 2. Or just a creature with a different mix of features? Evolutionists presume that creature 1 ''must have'' evolved into creature 2, so anything with a combination of the two creatures' features is seen as evidence of an intermediate/transitional form. That explanation is an over-simplification, but that's at least part of how it works. That was the basis for claiming that Archaeopteryx was transitional: it had some features in common with both reptiles and birds. But even staunch evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould described it as a "curious matrix", that is, a creature that had some features in common with reptiles and birds, but not on the way from one to the other.
::: So how ''do'' you prove that something is transitional? I don't think you can, ultimately, but a big step in the right direction would be to find not just ''a'' creature intermediate between two others, but a whole chain showing a gradual transition. My example above listed six "features", but any real creature is going to have hundreds if not thousands. If you have two creatures that differ by 200 features, and you found 200 other creatures that could be placed in a sequence where each one had one feature different to the previous, you'd be well on the way to demonstrating transitional forms. I'm not, of course, suggesting that you would need to have ''every one'' of those 200, but a large proportion of them would be needed. As it is, all you have these days is one or at best a handful.
::: Furthermore, given that creationists argue for variation within a created 'kind', this would need to be for two distinctly different creatures (i.e. of different created kinds); a smooth transition of intermediates between one type of shark and another type of shark doesn't count.
::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 20:46, 29 January 2008 (EST)
== Picture ==
== Picture ==
Would it be useful to add a picture such as this: http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3803/horseevolutionbl3.png --[[User:GDewey|GDewey]] 22:15, 28 January 2008 (EST)
Would it be useful to add a picture such as this: http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3803/horseevolutionbl3.png --[[User:GDewey|GDewey]] 22:15, 28 January 2008 (EST)