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Talk:Intelligent design controversy (view source)
Revision as of 14:32, April 10, 2008
, 14:32, April 10, 2008no edit summary
::: Again, your derogatory comments about rewriting the laws of physics show that you have no idea what you are talking about. How about coming up with some decent arguments instead of ''ad hominem'' attacks, rhetoric, and falsehoods?
::: Again, your derogatory comments about rewriting the laws of physics show that you have no idea what you are talking about. How about coming up with some decent arguments instead of ''ad hominem'' attacks, rhetoric, and falsehoods?
::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:11, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:11, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
::::Philip, I would have to agree with your assumption about Gulik5's example not falsifiying evolution. Gulik5’s example is a little off, in that the extinction date of T-Rex would be moved if the human were to be found in one’s mouth. However, if a human fossil were to be found in a Paleozoic stratum then evolution would be falsified due to mammals not being around at that point and certainly not humans. This is a pretty clear example.
::::The Talk Origins archive has been pieced together, that is true, however the research cited in the archive is where the real meat is. Scientists often are too technical for the layman therefore difficult to read and understand. As such it would be better if talk origins would clarify some of the research like a layman’s abstract if you will of the research.
::::The ISSR statement, the discovery institute does fund research for ID. Since they are a non-profit you can review their income and how much they are funding. In 2003 they had an income of 4.1 million and were offering research grants. They even have their own lab set up for research. It is just that the ID community has yet to publish anything or even announce the intent to publish any work. I would disagree with the comment that ID is not aiming to drive a wedge between science and religion, a document was leaked from the discovery institute entitled the wedge strategy that basically stated just that to drive a wedge between science and religion. This document is freely searchable on line and the discovery institute happens to have the big names of ID at their helm so there is no denying the wedge strategy is linked with ID’s motives.
::::Actually Phillip, I did mention that many new ideas in science are rejected, my string theory example. String theory is not fully accepted by the scientific community, and it has been available for the past 20 years. String theory did not have to go to other avenues, it stayed with academia; who were reviewing it and allowing for peer reviews until something really workable could come about from it before it was released to the general populous. In fact, it still is not taught in schools because of its shakiness. As I pointed out above, why would ID circumvent this process and go straight to the schools? ID is allowed to be discussed in the scientific community; it is often not discussed since there are no proposed hypothetical mechanisms for how ID occurs. In fact many scientists have been asking this (the hypothetical mechanisms) for several years now, to which those proponents of ID have yet to respond.
::::Phillip, as for indoctrination, I tell my students (I am a PhD candidate) to keep an open mind because science changes as new discoveries are made. However, when something has been shown to be upheld through much testing and is a basis for fundamental understanding of a concept then it would be folly to tell the student to keep an open mind when the evidence is so one-sided. To do so would offer more confusion than absolution this would defeat the purpose of learning. An example would be the simple physics of gravity, there are many different ideas surrounding gravity however in a physic’s course in high school one would find the most fundamental understanding of what gravity does, not how it really works. Same with evolution, in high school biology a person finds what evolution does, not how it works. You do not get into that until some very specific high level courses in the biological sciences, just as you would with gravity being found in higher level physics courses. No one questions gravity being taught or labels it as indoctrination however evolution is labeled as such even when its premise is just as important to understanding higher level biology as gravity is to understanding higher level physics.
::::I would like to continue this converstation but I do not wish to abuse the allowence that EdPoor gave me by unblocking my account. So I shall finish up my work on a couple of articles.--[[User:Able806|Able806]] 10:32, 10 April 2008 (EDT)